Comments on: Scalable City‘s Game http://grandtextauto.org/2008/10/27/scalable-citys-game/ A group blog about computer narrative, games, poetry, and art. Thu, 30 Sep 2010 22:43:57 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: Sheldon Brown http://grandtextauto.org/2008/10/27/scalable-citys-game/comment-page-1/#comment-340574 Sheldon Brown Thu, 06 Nov 2008 00:00:01 +0000 http://grandtextauto.org/?p=2191#comment-340574 The new maze scheme is making explicit the navigation schemes that are implicit in the other road systems- which include an L-system network of Archimedes spirals and grids of varying densities. I've always considered the maze to be the primary spatial logic of game or virtual space. This maze addition in the Scalable City only sort of suggests "solvability", in part because it is no easier or harder to navigate then any of the other schemes. For instance, the dense grid city is one of the harder cities to navigate, despite the supposed availability of all paths at all times. It is easy to find oneself taking turns that aren't intended, and most users adjust their navigation to move with more care. The curly roads, on the other hand, promote very rapid navigation. The maze city scheme is more like the curly roads, it is easy to move quickly, and the visual rewards benefit that approach, while the easy escapes do not punish excessive movement (there are multiple paths through the maze). What is useful, is that the maze reads like maze - so I'm more interested in what it brings symbolically to the road system, rather then operationally. The new maze scheme is making explicit the navigation schemes that are implicit in the other road systems- which include an L-system network of Archimedes spirals and grids of varying densities.
I’ve always considered the maze to be the primary spatial logic of game or virtual space.
This maze addition in the Scalable City only sort of suggests “solvability”, in part because it is no easier or harder to navigate then any of the other schemes. For instance, the dense grid city is one of the harder cities to navigate, despite the supposed availability of all paths at all times. It is easy to find oneself taking turns that aren’t intended, and most users adjust their navigation to move with more care. The curly roads, on the other hand, promote very rapid navigation. The maze city scheme is more like the curly roads, it is easy to move quickly, and the visual rewards benefit that approach, while the easy escapes do not punish excessive movement (there are multiple paths through the maze). What is useful, is that the maze reads like maze – so I’m more interested in what it brings symbolically to the road system, rather then operationally.

]]> By: Noah Wardrip-Fruin http://grandtextauto.org/2008/10/27/scalable-citys-game/comment-page-1/#comment-337866 Noah Wardrip-Fruin Wed, 29 Oct 2008 18:37:42 +0000 http://grandtextauto.org/?p=2191#comment-337866 Anne, I'm certainly familiar with people talking about software toys -- but usually that's a label applied to something like <i>SimCity,</i> which can be seen as less structured than the average game. I'm interested to hear you apply the term to <i>Scalable City,</i> which I'm describing here as more structured than the average game. Do you have any thoughts about this new (to me) twist on the concept? Sheldon, thanks for coming by and sharing some algorithm and interface thoughts. On a related note, I've also recently heard you say that the new installation includes some road forms that are suggestive of mazes. Of course, the maze is a quite gamelike form (with a winning condition, strategies, etc). Can you say anything about the maze algorithm and/or the shift it might represent in how people engage <i>Scalable City</i>? Anne, I’m certainly familiar with people talking about software toys — but usually that’s a label applied to something like SimCity, which can be seen as less structured than the average game. I’m interested to hear you apply the term to Scalable City, which I’m describing here as more structured than the average game. Do you have any thoughts about this new (to me) twist on the concept?

Sheldon, thanks for coming by and sharing some algorithm and interface thoughts. On a related note, I’ve also recently heard you say that the new installation includes some road forms that are suggestive of mazes. Of course, the maze is a quite gamelike form (with a winning condition, strategies, etc). Can you say anything about the maze algorithm and/or the shift it might represent in how people engage Scalable City?

]]> By: Sheldon Brown http://grandtextauto.org/2008/10/27/scalable-citys-game/comment-page-1/#comment-337605 Sheldon Brown Wed, 29 Oct 2008 00:15:47 +0000 http://grandtextauto.org/?p=2191#comment-337605 The algorithm that generates the curly roads is an L-system with branches made up of Archimedes spirals. The Yin-Yang is something that shows up on occasion. For some time, we were always on the lookout for them to pop up - it is a nice form for the construction/destruction acts that you are the instigator of when you play with the Scalable City. A comment about the "play" vs. "game" discussion - I aim more for play as an interface - it could also be characterized as wandering - or moving and acting as a kind of perception. The thing about the sandbox being less rule structured the games - it can also be said that the location of the rules differs - sometimes more based on the material properties of objects along with their symbolic suggestions of activities to be mimicked or transgressed or disregarded. The algorithm that generates the curly roads is an L-system with branches made up of Archimedes spirals. The Yin-Yang is something that shows up on occasion. For some time, we were always on the lookout for them to pop up – it is a nice form for the construction/destruction acts that you are the instigator of when you play with the Scalable City.

A comment about the “play” vs. “game” discussion – I aim more for play as an interface – it could also be characterized as wandering – or moving and acting as a kind of perception. The thing about the sandbox being less rule structured the games – it can also be said that the location of the rules differs – sometimes more based on the material properties of objects along with their symbolic suggestions of activities to be mimicked or transgressed or disregarded.

]]> By: Ron Newcomb http://grandtextauto.org/2008/10/27/scalable-citys-game/comment-page-1/#comment-337323 Ron Newcomb Tue, 28 Oct 2008 05:27:44 +0000 http://grandtextauto.org/?p=2191#comment-337323 Does anyone know the algorithm used to generate the non-intersecting curvilinear roads seen in the toyware's movie demos? The website's image gallery has, at the bottom, a picture of "yin-yang roads" that presumably were procedurally generated, not designed. I am curious the algorithm that was able to do that. -R Does anyone know the algorithm used to generate the non-intersecting curvilinear roads seen in the toyware’s movie demos? The website’s image gallery has, at the bottom, a picture of “yin-yang roads” that presumably were procedurally generated, not designed. I am curious the algorithm that was able to do that.

-R

]]> By: Anne Sullivan http://grandtextauto.org/2008/10/27/scalable-citys-game/comment-page-1/#comment-337310 Anne Sullivan Tue, 28 Oct 2008 04:34:45 +0000 http://grandtextauto.org/?p=2191#comment-337310 Something does not need to be a game to be enjoyable to play. Any child knows that given some imagination and possibly a few toys, there are hours of entertainment available. I would say that Scalable City is by definition a "toy" as opposed to a "game". Toys are tools for creating our own "games" of imagination. Games have preconceived rules created by the designer (not that we must follow the designer's rules when playing). I'd also go on to say that most "sandbox games" are merely playgrounds of toys with a few loose playground rules, and allow the player to play with the toys of their choosing. Something does not need to be a game to be enjoyable to play. Any child knows that given some imagination and possibly a few toys, there are hours of entertainment available.

I would say that Scalable City is by definition a “toy” as opposed to a “game”. Toys are tools for creating our own “games” of imagination. Games have preconceived rules created by the designer (not that we must follow the designer’s rules when playing).

I’d also go on to say that most “sandbox games” are merely playgrounds of toys with a few loose playground rules, and allow the player to play with the toys of their choosing.

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