http://grandtextauto.org/2008/04/04/process-of-the-ibm-poem-by-emmett-williams/ A group blog about computer narrative, games, poetry, and art. Wed, 13 Jan 2010 15:44:40 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 http://grandtextauto.org/2008/04/04/process-of-the-ibm-poem-by-emmett-williams/comment-page-1/#comment-314110 Ivor Griffiths Thu, 04 Sep 2008 19:46:52 +0000 http://grandtextauto.org/2008/04/04/process-of-the-ibm-poem-by-emmett-williams/#comment-314110 I have been programming for years and have written a few poetry generators. I never found any of them to be much good. The problem with poetry, if one can call it that, is the fact that it is so human. It is full of cultural and gender references that are beyond programming in simply linguistic terms. Turing and Wittgenstein have considered these two aspects, at the philosophical level, over fifty years ago. Still one day perhaps a poem will pass the "turing test". Software and AI has no response to the question, "what is reality?" Poetry does. I have been programming for years and have written a few poetry generators. I never found any of them to be much good. The problem with poetry, if one can call it that, is the fact that it is so human. It is full of cultural and gender references that are beyond programming in simply linguistic terms. Turing and Wittgenstein have considered these two aspects, at the philosophical level, over fifty years ago. Still one day perhaps a poem will pass the “turing test”. Software and AI has no response to the question, “what is reality?” Poetry does.

]]> http://grandtextauto.org/2008/04/04/process-of-the-ibm-poem-by-emmett-williams/comment-page-1/#comment-281493 Grand Text Auto » Codework Positions and Engagements Sat, 28 Jun 2008 00:27:18 +0000 http://grandtextauto.org/2008/04/04/process-of-the-ibm-poem-by-emmett-williams/#comment-281493 [...] the one about the relationship between creative writing and programming? Maybe not, but my posts on on Emmett Williams’s IBM Poem and programs Ted Nelson likes were from there. Nineteen short position papers from the workshop are [...] [...] the one about the relationship between creative writing and programming? Maybe not, but my posts on on Emmett Williams’s IBM Poem and programs Ted Nelson likes were from there. Nineteen short position papers from the workshop are [...]

]]> http://grandtextauto.org/2008/04/04/process-of-the-ibm-poem-by-emmett-williams/comment-page-1/#comment-238796 Elliot Smith Mon, 21 Apr 2008 22:12:58 +0000 http://grandtextauto.org/2008/04/04/process-of-the-ibm-poem-by-emmett-williams/#comment-238796 Hmm, not very good poetry :) I wrote a simple Prolog poetry generator which produces (near) grammatical sentences from a simple grammar. If you're interested, you're more than welcome to a copy. Hmm, not very good poetry :) I wrote a simple Prolog poetry generator which produces (near) grammatical sentences from a simple grammar. If you’re interested, you’re more than welcome to a copy.

]]> http://grandtextauto.org/2008/04/04/process-of-the-ibm-poem-by-emmett-williams/comment-page-1/#comment-232180 chris funkhouser Wed, 09 Apr 2008 12:26:49 +0000 http://grandtextauto.org/2008/04/04/process-of-the-ibm-poem-by-emmett-williams/#comment-232180 hi Chris, The way Williams explains it in _A Valentine for Noel_ (Something Else, 1973) is that in '65 he--after someone asked him if he wanted "to do something with a computer"--automated a process he devised in '55. I don't know who influenced who, but certainly these artists knew each other and doing procedural works seemed to be part of the spirit of the time. In any case, to read my recent lecture on the IBM poem see http://web.njit.edu/~funkhous/2008/machine/ - ok - cfunk hi Chris,
The way Williams explains it in _A Valentine for Noel_ (Something Else, 1973) is that in ‘65 he–after someone asked him if he wanted “to do something with a computer”–automated a process he devised in ‘55. I don’t know who influenced who, but certainly these artists knew each other and doing procedural works seemed to be part of the spirit of the time. In any case, to read my recent lecture on the IBM poem see http://web.njit.edu/~funkhous/2008/machine/ – ok – cfunk

]]> http://grandtextauto.org/2008/04/04/process-of-the-ibm-poem-by-emmett-williams/comment-page-1/#comment-230403 Chris Sat, 05 Apr 2008 20:11:42 +0000 http://grandtextauto.org/2008/04/04/process-of-the-ibm-poem-by-emmett-williams/#comment-230403 Oh wow, thanks for this. I didn't realize that Williams had worked with expansion-by-letters (which I have also worked with). I first saw that idea done by Jackson Mac Low in his Stanzas for Iris Lezak, which include a set of poems using similar methods -- the "3rd Asymmetry for Iris", for instance, dated 23 Sept 1960, is the most clearly like this, although it pulls its words from another source text. (It's reprinted in the recent selected Mac Low, Thing of Beauty.) Anyway, Mac Low's book wasn't published until 1971, but it was published by Something Else Press, which had also published Williams, so I don't know whether Williams would have heard about this idea from Mac Low or not. Oh wow, thanks for this. I didn’t realize that Williams had worked with expansion-by-letters (which I have also worked with). I first saw that idea done by Jackson Mac Low in his Stanzas for Iris Lezak, which include a set of poems using similar methods — the “3rd Asymmetry for Iris”, for instance, dated 23 Sept 1960, is the most clearly like this, although it pulls its words from another source text. (It’s reprinted in the recent selected Mac Low, Thing of Beauty.) Anyway, Mac Low’s book wasn’t published until 1971, but it was published by Something Else Press, which had also published Williams, so I don’t know whether Williams would have heard about this idea from Mac Low or not.

]]> http://grandtextauto.org/2008/04/04/process-of-the-ibm-poem-by-emmett-williams/comment-page-1/#comment-229737 nick Fri, 04 Apr 2008 16:31:12 +0000 http://grandtextauto.org/2008/04/04/process-of-the-ibm-poem-by-emmett-williams/#comment-229737 Arg! I've fixed my mistake - sorry, Rita. Arg! I’ve fixed my mistake – sorry, Rita.

]]> http://grandtextauto.org/2008/04/04/process-of-the-ibm-poem-by-emmett-williams/comment-page-1/#comment-229735 Rita R Fri, 04 Apr 2008 16:29:28 +0000 http://grandtextauto.org/2008/04/04/process-of-the-ibm-poem-by-emmett-williams/#comment-229735 raley/cayley raley/cayley

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