Comments on: EP 8.3: The Sims http://grandtextauto.org/2008/03/13/ep-83-the-sims/ A group blog about computer narrative, games, poetry, and art. Thu, 30 Sep 2010 22:43:57 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: Game AI Roundup Week #11 2008: 7 Stories, 3 Quotes, 1 Video — AiGameDev.com http://grandtextauto.org/2008/03/13/ep-83-the-sims/comment-page-1/#comment-220893 Game AI Roundup Week #11 2008: 7 Stories, 3 Quotes, 1 Video — AiGameDev.com Sun, 16 Mar 2008 13:24:14 +0000 http://grandtextauto.org/2008/03/13/ep-83-the-sims/#comment-220893 [...] EP 8.3: The Sims, grandtextauto.org [...] [...] EP 8.3: The Sims, grandtextauto.org [...]

]]> By: Grand Text Auto » Transparency, or Not? It Remains Unclear http://grandtextauto.org/2008/03/13/ep-83-the-sims/comment-page-1/#comment-219569 Grand Text Auto » Transparency, or Not? It Remains Unclear Fri, 14 Mar 2008 07:20:58 +0000 http://grandtextauto.org/2008/03/13/ep-83-the-sims/#comment-219569 [...] Noah’s analysis of The Sims suggests that The Sims succeeds as a game experience because it exposes the Sims characters’ inner processes to the player. In reaction, Richard Evans, working on a related to-be-announced product, describes the debate he and his colleagues are having over how much of their NPCs’ inner workings to expose. Richard believes that players need “a clear mental model” of how the characters operate in order to “project” themselves onto the characters — in particular, to allow players to believe the characters are deeper than they actually are, to believe in them as true characters. [...] [...] Noah’s analysis of The Sims suggests that The Sims succeeds as a game experience because it exposes the Sims characters’ inner processes to the player. In reaction, Richard Evans, working on a related to-be-announced product, describes the debate he and his colleagues are having over how much of their NPCs’ inner workings to expose. Richard believes that players need “a clear mental model” of how the characters operate in order to “project” themselves onto the characters — in particular, to allow players to believe the characters are deeper than they actually are, to believe in them as true characters. [...]

]]> By: noah http://grandtextauto.org/2008/03/13/ep-83-the-sims/comment-page-1/#comment-219298 noah Fri, 14 Mar 2008 05:07:01 +0000 http://grandtextauto.org/2008/03/13/ep-83-the-sims/#comment-219298 Richard, I'm fascinated to hear that such debates go on even within Maxis. I think of the Maxis touch being precisely the elegant, cumulative communication of the structure of the model through gameplay -- which is what makes projecting onto Maxis titles so much more interesting, over the long term, than doing it with things like <i>Eliza</i> or <i>Tale-Spin.</i> As you say, there's a foundation of understanding there for the projection. I hope at some point, maybe when this product is announced, you'll be able to say a bit more about the specifics of the debate, and perhaps how the process/conversation goes forward. Richard, I’m fascinated to hear that such debates go on even within Maxis. I think of the Maxis touch being precisely the elegant, cumulative communication of the structure of the model through gameplay — which is what makes projecting onto Maxis titles so much more interesting, over the long term, than doing it with things like Eliza or Tale-Spin. As you say, there’s a foundation of understanding there for the projection.

I hope at some point, maybe when this product is announced, you’ll be able to say a bit more about the specifics of the debate, and perhaps how the process/conversation goes forward.

]]> By: Richard Evans http://grandtextauto.org/2008/03/13/ep-83-the-sims/comment-page-1/#comment-219174 Richard Evans Thu, 13 Mar 2008 19:21:20 +0000 http://grandtextauto.org/2008/03/13/ep-83-the-sims/#comment-219174 This is very perceptive. In fact, there is disagreement at the moment amongst the designers on an as yet unannounced product, specifically about this issue. Some want to manifest the agent's interior mental states, for the reasons you give. Others worry that showing everything ruins "player projection"; they argue "the more you show, the less the player will project". I disagree - I think that "player projection" (the phenomenon where the player imputes more to the agents than is really going on) is a phenomenon which stands on the shoulders of the player having a clear mental model of how the agents operate. It is only if he understands *most* of why they do what they do that he will impute more to them. If he doesn't have a clear mental model of their interiority, because the designers have hidden the data from him, then he won't be able to project - you can't stand on the shoulders of nothingness! This is very perceptive.

In fact, there is disagreement at the moment amongst the designers on an as yet unannounced product, specifically about this issue. Some want to manifest the agent’s interior mental states, for the reasons you give. Others worry that showing everything ruins “player projection”; they argue “the more you show, the less the player will project”.

I disagree – I think that “player projection” (the phenomenon where the player imputes more to the agents than is really going on) is a phenomenon which stands on the shoulders of the player having a clear mental model of how the agents operate. It is only if he understands *most* of why they do what they do that he will impute more to them. If he doesn’t have a clear mental model of their interiority, because the designers have hidden the data from him, then he won’t be able to project – you can’t stand on the shoulders of nothingness!

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