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	<title>Comments on: PvP: Portal versus Passage</title>
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	<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/</link>
	<description>A group blog about computer narrative, games, poetry, and art.</description>
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		<title>By: Untrustworthy Source</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/comment-page-2/#comment-511307</link>
		<dc:creator>Untrustworthy Source</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:17:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/#comment-511307</guid>
		<description>Am I the only one who didn&#039;t find Passage profound or thought-provoking? What were the thoughts being provoked anyway? Was it an epiphany about how you get old and die? Some of us had worked that out. Was it trying to present that view in a new and not-really-all-that-effective way? That&#039;s one of the infuriating things about the indie games scene; if you say that, after all, it wasn&#039;t really that deep, you get heads shaken at you as you are told that you just don&#039;t get it. You&#039;re also told that the game is all about your personal interpretation in the same breath that the meaning of the game is exhaustively explained.

All this debate about if games are art or whether they should be seen as poetry smacks to me of incredible pretentiousness. A game needs to be judged as a game, not as an interactive art piece or a short story or a blueberry pie, and a s a game Portal is a success.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Am I the only one who didn&#8217;t find Passage profound or thought-provoking? What were the thoughts being provoked anyway? Was it an epiphany about how you get old and die? Some of us had worked that out. Was it trying to present that view in a new and not-really-all-that-effective way? That&#8217;s one of the infuriating things about the indie games scene; if you say that, after all, it wasn&#8217;t really that deep, you get heads shaken at you as you are told that you just don&#8217;t get it. You&#8217;re also told that the game is all about your personal interpretation in the same breath that the meaning of the game is exhaustively explained.</p>
<p>All this debate about if games are art or whether they should be seen as poetry smacks to me of incredible pretentiousness. A game needs to be judged as a game, not as an interactive art piece or a short story or a blueberry pie, and a s a game Portal is a success.</p>
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		<title>By: Post Position &#187; Well Played</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/comment-page-2/#comment-493484</link>
		<dc:creator>Post Position &#187; Well Played</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 19:40:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/#comment-493484</guid>
		<description>[...] comparing two of the top games of 2007. Thanks to everyone who discussed this comparison with me at Grand Text Auto when I first blogged about this pair of games. My article is, I think, both more extensive and more [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] comparing two of the top games of 2007. Thanks to everyone who discussed this comparison with me at Grand Text Auto when I first blogged about this pair of games. My article is, I think, both more extensive and more [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Independent Media Channel - New Media Art News from Rhizome</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/comment-page-2/#comment-305245</link>
		<dc:creator>The Independent Media Channel - New Media Art News from Rhizome</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 18:23:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/#comment-305245</guid>
		<description>[...] entry has become a micro sensation on its own, garnering kudos in scads of the most widely read games blogs as well as mainstream press. In Passage, you play a character who travels across a narrow [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] entry has become a micro sensation on its own, garnering kudos in scads of the most widely read games blogs as well as mainstream press. In Passage, you play a character who travels across a narrow [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Panic {RE}_Programming &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Rhizome News: The Game of Life</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/comment-page-2/#comment-305203</link>
		<dc:creator>Panic {RE}_Programming &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Rhizome News: The Game of Life</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 13:03:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/#comment-305203</guid>
		<description>[...] entry has become a micro sensation on its own, garnering kudos in scads of the most widely read games blogs as well as mainstream press. In Passage, you play a character who travels across a narrow [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] entry has become a micro sensation on its own, garnering kudos in scads of the most widely read games blogs as well as mainstream press. In Passage, you play a character who travels across a narrow [...]</p>
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		<title>By: MW</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/comment-page-2/#comment-262042</link>
		<dc:creator>MW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2008 16:55:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/#comment-262042</guid>
		<description>Peter, you describe games as things that some people love, and Passage as more artwork than game...  yet you say Passage will be more influential in the long term than Portal, though Portal is an excellent game.  Do you mean to say that art is more important than love?

At any rate, y&#039;all sure do seem to worship &quot;thought&quot; and the provocation thereof.  Why is this?  Some commenter above makes a goofy effort to extrapolate Nick&#039;s original argument into a hypothetical world wherein every game tries to be serious art and to break your heart.  To me that doesn&#039;t sound so bad...  it might be more interesting than what we have now, anyway.  What bothers me is the thought of the hypothetical world in which y&#039;all seem to get your wish and people come to consider the highest calling of humanity to be Important, Thought-Provoking Criticism, and instead of games OR art we have nothing but words words words from men who sit in chairs while the world passes them by.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter, you describe games as things that some people love, and Passage as more artwork than game&#8230;  yet you say Passage will be more influential in the long term than Portal, though Portal is an excellent game.  Do you mean to say that art is more important than love?</p>
<p>At any rate, y&#8217;all sure do seem to worship &#8220;thought&#8221; and the provocation thereof.  Why is this?  Some commenter above makes a goofy effort to extrapolate Nick&#8217;s original argument into a hypothetical world wherein every game tries to be serious art and to break your heart.  To me that doesn&#8217;t sound so bad&#8230;  it might be more interesting than what we have now, anyway.  What bothers me is the thought of the hypothetical world in which y&#8217;all seem to get your wish and people come to consider the highest calling of humanity to be Important, Thought-Provoking Criticism, and instead of games OR art we have nothing but words words words from men who sit in chairs while the world passes them by.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/comment-page-2/#comment-236503</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 20:51:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/#comment-236503</guid>
		<description>I am so thrilled to finally have unearthed this blog--I&#039;ve known about this place for a while, but never looked much into it until today. This article is excellent and I agree whole-heartedly.  ...perhaps except the use of the word &quot;better&quot;. If I were you, I would&#039;ve used &quot;more influencial in a long term&quot; instead, which is basically what you&#039;ve said in the article. Portal certainly is more entertaining, and thus, probably a better &quot;game&quot;--that is, if we define &quot;game&quot; as more an entertainment than a thought-provoking artistic piece of work.

Recently I&#039;ve been suspecting that today&#039;s gamers, who become so angry and defensive when games are criticized or analyzed in a negative way, actually think of games as mere entertainment, not as art works, themselves. People just don&#039;t like what they love being discussed in degrading way. I think the responses on this blog is a testament to my suspicion; most here consider games&#039; priority lies with entertaining players, and thus, boring and trite Passage can never be a better game.

And one of the comment likens Passage with painting, and Portal with short story. I think it&#039;s wrong comparison. I think of Passage a small but focused and thought-provoking painting (maybe Mona Lisa?), and Portal a big and fun (probably Roccoco, at best) but with accompanying music playing next to it to heighten the viewing experience.

Thank you for such a great discussion. I&#039;m off to your follow-up post. And any word on next Facade-like interactive drama?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am so thrilled to finally have unearthed this blog&#8211;I&#8217;ve known about this place for a while, but never looked much into it until today. This article is excellent and I agree whole-heartedly.  &#8230;perhaps except the use of the word &#8220;better&#8221;. If I were you, I would&#8217;ve used &#8220;more influencial in a long term&#8221; instead, which is basically what you&#8217;ve said in the article. Portal certainly is more entertaining, and thus, probably a better &#8220;game&#8221;&#8211;that is, if we define &#8220;game&#8221; as more an entertainment than a thought-provoking artistic piece of work.</p>
<p>Recently I&#8217;ve been suspecting that today&#8217;s gamers, who become so angry and defensive when games are criticized or analyzed in a negative way, actually think of games as mere entertainment, not as art works, themselves. People just don&#8217;t like what they love being discussed in degrading way. I think the responses on this blog is a testament to my suspicion; most here consider games&#8217; priority lies with entertaining players, and thus, boring and trite Passage can never be a better game.</p>
<p>And one of the comment likens Passage with painting, and Portal with short story. I think it&#8217;s wrong comparison. I think of Passage a small but focused and thought-provoking painting (maybe Mona Lisa?), and Portal a big and fun (probably Roccoco, at best) but with accompanying music playing next to it to heighten the viewing experience.</p>
<p>Thank you for such a great discussion. I&#8217;m off to your follow-up post. And any word on next Facade-like interactive drama?</p>
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		<title>By: Grand Text Auto &#187; Link Madness, Part 1: the Hyperbolic</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/comment-page-2/#comment-224592</link>
		<dc:creator>Grand Text Auto &#187; Link Madness, Part 1: the Hyperbolic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Mar 2008 22:41:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/#comment-224592</guid>
		<description>[...] Daxa on PvP: Portal versus Passage [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Daxa on PvP: Portal versus Passage [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Daxa</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/comment-page-2/#comment-222960</link>
		<dc:creator>Daxa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 13:28:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/#comment-222960</guid>
		<description>You fellows are ridiculous.

Passage is beautiful.  Portal is more fun, but is beautiful in a different way.  I believe Passage excels because of its blandness.  I&#039;m not sure whether or not you can consider Passage a game - it seems to me more like art disguised as a game.  Portal has artistic elements, but is certainly a game.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You fellows are ridiculous.</p>
<p>Passage is beautiful.  Portal is more fun, but is beautiful in a different way.  I believe Passage excels because of its blandness.  I&#8217;m not sure whether or not you can consider Passage a game &#8211; it seems to me more like art disguised as a game.  Portal has artistic elements, but is certainly a game.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/comment-page-2/#comment-221738</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 15:15:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/#comment-221738</guid>
		<description>Thomas Taylor is right on the money.  If you want to have a good time, go play portal.   If you want to learn something useful or important, guess what?  It&#039;s time to go read some nonfiction...  like a REAL man.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thomas Taylor is right on the money.  If you want to have a good time, go play portal.   If you want to learn something useful or important, guess what?  It&#8217;s time to go read some nonfiction&#8230;  like a REAL man.</p>
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		<title>By: Gravitation &#124; Gamin.ru - Блог об инди-играх</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/comment-page-2/#comment-215876</link>
		<dc:creator>Gravitation &#124; Gamin.ru - Блог об инди-играх</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Mar 2008 12:24:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/#comment-215876</guid>
		<description>[...] очень высоко оценили. Один человек даже написал статью, в которой доказывается её превосходство над [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] очень высоко оценили. Один человек даже написал статью, в которой доказывается её превосходство над [...]</p>
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		<title>By: MW</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/comment-page-2/#comment-215693</link>
		<dc:creator>MW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Mar 2008 00:16:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/#comment-215693</guid>
		<description>Hey Nick, could you remind us again what Passage gave you to think about?  Did you really not know that people die, or that some of life&#039;s big choices involve big compromises, until you played this game (or whatever it is)?  You talk about how people can potentially use Passage&#039;s model as a tool for exploring their own lives, but you don&#039;t say that you&#039;ve done this yourself.  You say Passage shows people that games can model our world and what we care about in it--but you don&#039;t say you&#039;re one of these people.  The only value you seem to have directly gotten out of this game, other than the chance to talk critically about it at great length with various dudes in this blog (which I consider to be outside the game, and thus not part of its value, though some would surely disagree with this), is that of the heartbreak it gave you.  But you say it&#039;s better than Portal because...  it made you think?  Won&#039;t you give heartbreak its due?

Incidentally, when I first played Narbacular Drop--not even the awesomely polished Portal, but instead the goofy little chunk of coal it was chipped out of!--I felt utterly intoxicated with possibility.  Nobody had ever given me such a wonderful tool as that portal gun before, with which to explore a model of my world and some of the things I care about in it (i.e., its geometry and mechanics)!  Sure, after a few minutes the feeling faded...  but Passage is only a few minutes long.  Where were you during that part of Portal?  Were you busy thinking Deep Thoughts about Love and Death?  Come on guy, there&#039;s more to the universe than that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Nick, could you remind us again what Passage gave you to think about?  Did you really not know that people die, or that some of life&#8217;s big choices involve big compromises, until you played this game (or whatever it is)?  You talk about how people can potentially use Passage&#8217;s model as a tool for exploring their own lives, but you don&#8217;t say that you&#8217;ve done this yourself.  You say Passage shows people that games can model our world and what we care about in it&#8211;but you don&#8217;t say you&#8217;re one of these people.  The only value you seem to have directly gotten out of this game, other than the chance to talk critically about it at great length with various dudes in this blog (which I consider to be outside the game, and thus not part of its value, though some would surely disagree with this), is that of the heartbreak it gave you.  But you say it&#8217;s better than Portal because&#8230;  it made you think?  Won&#8217;t you give heartbreak its due?</p>
<p>Incidentally, when I first played Narbacular Drop&#8211;not even the awesomely polished Portal, but instead the goofy little chunk of coal it was chipped out of!&#8211;I felt utterly intoxicated with possibility.  Nobody had ever given me such a wonderful tool as that portal gun before, with which to explore a model of my world and some of the things I care about in it (i.e., its geometry and mechanics)!  Sure, after a few minutes the feeling faded&#8230;  but Passage is only a few minutes long.  Where were you during that part of Portal?  Were you busy thinking Deep Thoughts about Love and Death?  Come on guy, there&#8217;s more to the universe than that.</p>
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		<title>By: Geek Studies &#187; Blog Archive &#187; More on Death in Games</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/comment-page-2/#comment-214729</link>
		<dc:creator>Geek Studies &#187; Blog Archive &#187; More on Death in Games</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 17:17:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/#comment-214729</guid>
		<description>[...] of Passage, a game where the points mean nothing and you inevitably die alone. Nick Montford has argued that the game is superior to recent award-winning favorite Portal, though I think that&#8217;s kind [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of Passage, a game where the points mean nothing and you inevitably die alone. Nick Montford has argued that the game is superior to recent award-winning favorite Portal, though I think that&#8217;s kind [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Gravitation as an Artistic Game &#187; GBGames - Thoughts on Indie Game Development</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/comment-page-2/#comment-214592</link>
		<dc:creator>Gravitation as an Artistic Game &#187; GBGames - Thoughts on Indie Game Development</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 07:53:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/#comment-214592</guid>
		<description>[...] game before reading that explanation. This game got high praise when it was compared to Portal at Grand Text Auto: &#8220;Portal is neat, and its design accomplishments and high polish are real. It just isn’t [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] game before reading that explanation. This game got high praise when it was compared to Portal at Grand Text Auto: &#8220;Portal is neat, and its design accomplishments and high polish are real. It just isn’t [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Kriss Daniels</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/comment-page-2/#comment-214416</link>
		<dc:creator>Kriss Daniels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 21:27:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/#comment-214416</guid>
		<description>yes portal isn&#039;t really that good

but at least it isn&#039;t hippy bullshit masquerading as a game

holding up a non game as an example of what games can be is not actually a very helpful thing to do</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yes portal isn&#8217;t really that good</p>
<p>but at least it isn&#8217;t hippy bullshit masquerading as a game</p>
<p>holding up a non game as an example of what games can be is not actually a very helpful thing to do</p>
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		<title>By: Trevor</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/comment-page-2/#comment-214388</link>
		<dc:creator>Trevor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 20:11:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/#comment-214388</guid>
		<description>The following point in the article is false,

&quot;The game mechanics and the simulated environment do not make a definite statement about life (”money is meaningless” or “life is better alone”) or about moral choices (”you killed the puppy, you are a bad person”)&quot;

Not true.  The music - especially the music - the ambiance, the inevitable tombstone, they all usher you to a certain conclusion.  And what is the definite conclusion?  Nobody says it better than the developer himself,

&quot;Your score looks pretty meaningless hovering there above your little tombstone.&quot;   - Jason Rohrer</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The following point in the article is false,</p>
<p>&#8220;The game mechanics and the simulated environment do not make a definite statement about life (”money is meaningless” or “life is better alone”) or about moral choices (”you killed the puppy, you are a bad person”)&#8221;</p>
<p>Not true.  The music &#8211; especially the music &#8211; the ambiance, the inevitable tombstone, they all usher you to a certain conclusion.  And what is the definite conclusion?  Nobody says it better than the developer himself,</p>
<p>&#8220;Your score looks pretty meaningless hovering there above your little tombstone.&#8221;   &#8211; Jason Rohrer</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/comment-page-2/#comment-214285</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 13:41:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/#comment-214285</guid>
		<description>The conclusion reached here seems a little confused in differentiating the idea of a potential evolution of Portal to that of Passage when it would be the same thing; somebody is influenced by one of the games and then builds on it. You cannot simply state that Portal will not evoke the kind of emotions that Passage does in everybody.

Personally, I think that passage is an interesting little game that touches on some issues that most games don&#039;t (mortality etc), but it is not the first to deal with such issues. Planescape: Torment, for example, was largely focused on the idea of (im)mortaility and the memories one collects through their lifetime, however long.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The conclusion reached here seems a little confused in differentiating the idea of a potential evolution of Portal to that of Passage when it would be the same thing; somebody is influenced by one of the games and then builds on it. You cannot simply state that Portal will not evoke the kind of emotions that Passage does in everybody.</p>
<p>Personally, I think that passage is an interesting little game that touches on some issues that most games don&#8217;t (mortality etc), but it is not the first to deal with such issues. Planescape: Torment, for example, was largely focused on the idea of (im)mortaility and the memories one collects through their lifetime, however long.</p>
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		<title>By: DefAcid</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/comment-page-2/#comment-213911</link>
		<dc:creator>DefAcid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 12:39:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/#comment-213911</guid>
		<description>I hate it when people talk about how one game is better than another. It&#039;s an opinion. I also didn&#039;t really enjoy Passage very much, though it was a little interesting at first, it&#039;s very predictable and monotonous when you&#039;re halfway through the game. :(</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hate it when people talk about how one game is better than another. It&#8217;s an opinion. I also didn&#8217;t really enjoy Passage very much, though it was a little interesting at first, it&#8217;s very predictable and monotonous when you&#8217;re halfway through the game. :(</p>
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		<title>By: PurpleChair</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/comment-page-2/#comment-213175</link>
		<dc:creator>PurpleChair</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 01:51:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/#comment-213175</guid>
		<description>(Re: Comment 14)

Johan Huizinga was full of shit. You can&#039;t say Passage isn&#039;t a game just because it deals with real life issues... EVERY game deals with real-life issues, once you look at them long enough. No, what makes Passage not a game is the fact that there&#039;s no objective. Players can decide on their own objective, sure, but that&#039;s something THEY bring to the table, to turn their experience INTO a game.

That said, I think you just mean &#039;game&#039; in the general &#039;interactive experience&#039; sense, in which case you may well have a point. Portal is a good game, but I think it&#039;s more likely to be remembered as a prelude to HL2: Episode Three than for the game itself. Of course, Passage will barely be remembered at all, since so few people will have played it, but it does have an interesting message at least.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(Re: Comment 14)</p>
<p>Johan Huizinga was full of shit. You can&#8217;t say Passage isn&#8217;t a game just because it deals with real life issues&#8230; EVERY game deals with real-life issues, once you look at them long enough. No, what makes Passage not a game is the fact that there&#8217;s no objective. Players can decide on their own objective, sure, but that&#8217;s something THEY bring to the table, to turn their experience INTO a game.</p>
<p>That said, I think you just mean &#8216;game&#8217; in the general &#8216;interactive experience&#8217; sense, in which case you may well have a point. Portal is a good game, but I think it&#8217;s more likely to be remembered as a prelude to HL2: Episode Three than for the game itself. Of course, Passage will barely be remembered at all, since so few people will have played it, but it does have an interesting message at least.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Expertologist &#187; Monday Games: Interesting Choices</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/comment-page-1/#comment-212903</link>
		<dc:creator>Expertologist &#187; Monday Games: Interesting Choices</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 17:22:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/#comment-212903</guid>
		<description>[...] about it, leading me to wonder if I wouldn&#8217;t end up just retreading old ground. But between a piece by Nick Montford for Grand Text Auto (best read after you&#8217;ve played the game for yourself) comparing the game to Valve&#8217;s [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] about it, leading me to wonder if I wouldn&#8217;t end up just retreading old ground. But between a piece by Nick Montford for Grand Text Auto (best read after you&#8217;ve played the game for yourself) comparing the game to Valve&#8217;s [...]</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: FAC73</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/comment-page-1/#comment-212901</link>
		<dc:creator>FAC73</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 17:19:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/#comment-212901</guid>
		<description>While I havent played Portal, I can tell you that Passage really didnt do anything for me. I&#039;m supportive of indie games that attempt to create powerful emotional experiences that aren&#039;t necessarily &quot;fun&quot; in the traditional sense, but Passage bored me to tears. There was too little to interact it, and the pixellated graphics just seemed ugly rather than stylised.

Like someone else said earlier on, I &quot;got&quot; what was happening about 10 seconds in, but it just didn&#039;t move me in the slightest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I havent played Portal, I can tell you that Passage really didnt do anything for me. I&#8217;m supportive of indie games that attempt to create powerful emotional experiences that aren&#8217;t necessarily &#8220;fun&#8221; in the traditional sense, but Passage bored me to tears. There was too little to interact it, and the pixellated graphics just seemed ugly rather than stylised.</p>
<p>Like someone else said earlier on, I &#8220;got&#8221; what was happening about 10 seconds in, but it just didn&#8217;t move me in the slightest.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Brand_X</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/comment-page-1/#comment-212780</link>
		<dc:creator>Brand_X</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 13:13:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/#comment-212780</guid>
		<description>Passage was a wast of time. I can think of much better things to do to stimulate my thought. Its a gimic that dosent work and more of interactive abstract art than a game.

Portal is a puzzle game pure and simple. Can be fun or can be boring. I cant think of a single reason Passage would be considered better. Why try and compare things that are so different.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Passage was a wast of time. I can think of much better things to do to stimulate my thought. Its a gimic that dosent work and more of interactive abstract art than a game.</p>
<p>Portal is a puzzle game pure and simple. Can be fun or can be boring. I cant think of a single reason Passage would be considered better. Why try and compare things that are so different.</p>
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		<title>By: FatboyTim</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/comment-page-1/#comment-212657</link>
		<dc:creator>FatboyTim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 09:14:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/#comment-212657</guid>
		<description>Look at the Emperor&#039;s new clothes. They&#039;re beautiful!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Look at the Emperor&#8217;s new clothes. They&#8217;re beautiful!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: James H.</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/comment-page-1/#comment-212631</link>
		<dc:creator>James H.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 07:59:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/#comment-212631</guid>
		<description>I think it really depends on what you&#039;re going for in a game. If you want the game to be involving, addicting and a bit humorous, Portal is that game. If you want an emotional bomb dropped on you, Passage has few peers - if you can get past the sparse graphical content.

In fact, I&#039;d go so far as to say that the power of games to do that kind of thing is dangerous. As the author mentions, A Mind Forever Voyaging is one of the most powerful works in gaming. When I played through it, it gave me nightmares. If it were rendered with modern, realistic graphics, I&#039;m not sure whether I would have finished it, though if I had the ending would probably have been that much more uplifting.

I&#039;m also tempted to agree with the author that Portal is primarily focused on commercial value, not that that&#039;s a bad thing. The thing is, it would probably be commercial death to set up something more emotionally charged. Gamers like playing through games in a haze of mild addiction, and then try to discuss their play experience as if it were literature, for lack of other ways to discuss the game. Portal fulfills that with lots of subtle cues, but if you wanted to go for artistic impact, it fails where it would all add up to something, right at the ending. The boss sequence was, like most boss sequences, *mildly embarassing* in its obvious machinations. Once you&#039;ve sat through the long, contrived monologue, things are deliberately left unresolved. No deep, hard-hitting revelations. That&#039;s no way to end an &quot;artistic triumph.&quot; That&#039;s being geeky and clever and highly marketable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it really depends on what you&#8217;re going for in a game. If you want the game to be involving, addicting and a bit humorous, Portal is that game. If you want an emotional bomb dropped on you, Passage has few peers &#8211; if you can get past the sparse graphical content.</p>
<p>In fact, I&#8217;d go so far as to say that the power of games to do that kind of thing is dangerous. As the author mentions, A Mind Forever Voyaging is one of the most powerful works in gaming. When I played through it, it gave me nightmares. If it were rendered with modern, realistic graphics, I&#8217;m not sure whether I would have finished it, though if I had the ending would probably have been that much more uplifting.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m also tempted to agree with the author that Portal is primarily focused on commercial value, not that that&#8217;s a bad thing. The thing is, it would probably be commercial death to set up something more emotionally charged. Gamers like playing through games in a haze of mild addiction, and then try to discuss their play experience as if it were literature, for lack of other ways to discuss the game. Portal fulfills that with lots of subtle cues, but if you wanted to go for artistic impact, it fails where it would all add up to something, right at the ending. The boss sequence was, like most boss sequences, *mildly embarassing* in its obvious machinations. Once you&#8217;ve sat through the long, contrived monologue, things are deliberately left unresolved. No deep, hard-hitting revelations. That&#8217;s no way to end an &#8220;artistic triumph.&#8221; That&#8217;s being geeky and clever and highly marketable.</p>
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		<title>By: Azshiris</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/comment-page-1/#comment-212084</link>
		<dc:creator>Azshiris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 03:50:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/#comment-212084</guid>
		<description>**Warning: Contains Spoilers**
Most of my opinions have already been reflected in other people&#039;s.  I am wholly in the camp of &#039;This is like comparing Apples to Oranges&#039;.  Sometimes a game is meant to be pure, simple fun.  Portal itself challenges the player&#039;s thinking as has been mentioned in previous articles.  The whole scene where the player descends into the fire pit (reportedly) challenged players because they had a momentary thought of &#039;This is how it&#039;s (the game) supposed to end, I can&#039;t change my fate.&#039;  I had it, and then I realised that I could escape.  It made me think about games in general how we always expect the end to be the end.  I play RPGs which often have boss fights that you just can&#039;t win and are meant to lose.  There is always a moment of &quot;How the heck can I win this fight?&quot; when I lose.  Then elation as I find out that it was how it was meant to happen.  It&#039;s a reflection of life, sometimes we resign ourselves to a fate because we think there is no other way and this is just how it&#039;s meant to be.  

Oh look, I just found the existentialism (hooray, a buzz word) in Portal.  If you want to go even deeper, Portal can be analagous to life.  You start off (are born) in a room, no idea who you are or what you are doing.  Then you are slowly coached by the parent figure GLADoS on how to get through life.  She gives you a key tool to explore your world and live.  Then you find the cube.  It is not your parent, it is a fascinating other person who you&#039;d rather spend time with.  GLADoS, the over protective parent, gets you to dump them and never see them again.  Then, when she sees that you are no longer her child, she tries to destroy you.  You escape and start to learn your parent was wrong about the world and there is more to it.  Eventually, you cannot escape her clutches and the only way to live your life freely is to kill her.  

So now we can say Portal is a dark look at the life of children who live with over protective and controlling parents.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>**Warning: Contains Spoilers**<br />
Most of my opinions have already been reflected in other people&#8217;s.  I am wholly in the camp of &#8216;This is like comparing Apples to Oranges&#8217;.  Sometimes a game is meant to be pure, simple fun.  Portal itself challenges the player&#8217;s thinking as has been mentioned in previous articles.  The whole scene where the player descends into the fire pit (reportedly) challenged players because they had a momentary thought of &#8216;This is how it&#8217;s (the game) supposed to end, I can&#8217;t change my fate.&#8217;  I had it, and then I realised that I could escape.  It made me think about games in general how we always expect the end to be the end.  I play RPGs which often have boss fights that you just can&#8217;t win and are meant to lose.  There is always a moment of &#8220;How the heck can I win this fight?&#8221; when I lose.  Then elation as I find out that it was how it was meant to happen.  It&#8217;s a reflection of life, sometimes we resign ourselves to a fate because we think there is no other way and this is just how it&#8217;s meant to be.  </p>
<p>Oh look, I just found the existentialism (hooray, a buzz word) in Portal.  If you want to go even deeper, Portal can be analagous to life.  You start off (are born) in a room, no idea who you are or what you are doing.  Then you are slowly coached by the parent figure GLADoS on how to get through life.  She gives you a key tool to explore your world and live.  Then you find the cube.  It is not your parent, it is a fascinating other person who you&#8217;d rather spend time with.  GLADoS, the over protective parent, gets you to dump them and never see them again.  Then, when she sees that you are no longer her child, she tries to destroy you.  You escape and start to learn your parent was wrong about the world and there is more to it.  Eventually, you cannot escape her clutches and the only way to live your life freely is to kill her.  </p>
<p>So now we can say Portal is a dark look at the life of children who live with over protective and controlling parents.</p>
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		<title>By: Gregory Block</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/comment-page-1/#comment-211955</link>
		<dc:creator>Gregory Block</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 00:47:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/#comment-211955</guid>
		<description>The problem with Passage is that it&#039;s not a &quot;game&quot; in the sense of being a celebration of gameplay; it has more in common with interactive fiction than it does with Portal.  As interactive fiction, or even as the game equivalent of a short story, it&#039;s fantastic.

Portal spends hours teaching you a mechanic and then unfolds the actual game in the last level; what Portal is and does is a factor of the fact that it has a gameplay mechanic to teach you; the length of the game is almost exactly &quot;long enough to learn the mechanic + 1 level&quot;.  As a window into game design, Portal does an amazing job.

Passage isn&#039;t the same kind of beast.  Not in any way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem with Passage is that it&#8217;s not a &#8220;game&#8221; in the sense of being a celebration of gameplay; it has more in common with interactive fiction than it does with Portal.  As interactive fiction, or even as the game equivalent of a short story, it&#8217;s fantastic.</p>
<p>Portal spends hours teaching you a mechanic and then unfolds the actual game in the last level; what Portal is and does is a factor of the fact that it has a gameplay mechanic to teach you; the length of the game is almost exactly &#8220;long enough to learn the mechanic + 1 level&#8221;.  As a window into game design, Portal does an amazing job.</p>
<p>Passage isn&#8217;t the same kind of beast.  Not in any way.</p>
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		<title>By: Anon</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/comment-page-1/#comment-211900</link>
		<dc:creator>Anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 22:40:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/#comment-211900</guid>
		<description>Passage sucked.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Passage sucked.</p>
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		<title>By: Verum</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/comment-page-1/#comment-211890</link>
		<dc:creator>Verum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 22:06:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/#comment-211890</guid>
		<description>What makes a video game great is the game play. I bought Portal because of how the game played, it was unlike anything I&#039;d ever seen before, and it was glorious. The game would not have been so popular if it had been a typical FPS. As far as passage goes, I too can make a platformer using GameMaker.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What makes a video game great is the game play. I bought Portal because of how the game played, it was unlike anything I&#8217;d ever seen before, and it was glorious. The game would not have been so popular if it had been a typical FPS. As far as passage goes, I too can make a platformer using GameMaker.</p>
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		<title>By: Shai</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/comment-page-1/#comment-211884</link>
		<dc:creator>Shai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 21:41:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/#comment-211884</guid>
		<description>&quot;While Portal gives me things to think about, they tend to be confined to the realm of game design. Passage breaks far beyond this, which is why I think it’s the better game.&quot;

I think this is where you and those disagreeing with you break apart. You simply consider a game better if it makes you think about it more. While you have other points for judgement, it seems as if this is your most important aspect of what you call a game, and if a game is lacking &quot;visually beautiful, well-crafted interfaces&quot; and &quot;interesting game mechanics&quot; but is &quot;interesting to think about and talk about&quot;, then you would still consider it superior.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;While Portal gives me things to think about, they tend to be confined to the realm of game design. Passage breaks far beyond this, which is why I think it’s the better game.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think this is where you and those disagreeing with you break apart. You simply consider a game better if it makes you think about it more. While you have other points for judgement, it seems as if this is your most important aspect of what you call a game, and if a game is lacking &#8220;visually beautiful, well-crafted interfaces&#8221; and &#8220;interesting game mechanics&#8221; but is &#8220;interesting to think about and talk about&#8221;, then you would still consider it superior.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/comment-page-1/#comment-211875</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 21:11:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/#comment-211875</guid>
		<description>Passage would never sell.  It is a game only in the most airy sense.  It is painful to look at and painful to play.
I do not consider it a game, as it offers little personal gratification, as well as no competition through multiple players.
Portal does not have multiplayer, but the story&#039;s execution and delivery are excellent.
I think I&#039;ll stick with cake.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Passage would never sell.  It is a game only in the most airy sense.  It is painful to look at and painful to play.<br />
I do not consider it a game, as it offers little personal gratification, as well as no competition through multiple players.<br />
Portal does not have multiplayer, but the story&#8217;s execution and delivery are excellent.<br />
I think I&#8217;ll stick with cake.</p>
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		<title>By: Pixeles életjáték &#124; miafene</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/comment-page-1/#comment-211839</link>
		<dc:creator>Pixeles életjáték &#124; miafene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 19:10:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/02/24/pvp-portal-versus-passage/#comment-211839</guid>
		<description>[...] így, iránt érdeklődők pár kör Passage után átnézhetnek a Grandtextauto blogba, ahol a Portallal veti össze a szerző a maréknyi pixelből készült életjátékot.   Elküldés &#124;   Hozzászólás  &#124;  Hozzászólás RSS &#124;   Trackback [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] így, iránt érdeklődők pár kör Passage után átnézhetnek a Grandtextauto blogba, ahol a Portallal veti össze a szerző a maréknyi pixelből készült életjátékot.   Elküldés |   Hozzászólás  |  Hozzászólás RSS |   Trackback [...]</p>
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