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	<title>Comments on: EP 1.2: Authoring Processes</title>
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	<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/</link>
	<description>A group blog about computer narrative, games, poetry, and art.</description>
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		<title>By: Consideraciones Previas &#171; Tecnologías Literarias</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/comment-page-1/#comment-312366</link>
		<dc:creator>Consideraciones Previas &#171; Tecnologías Literarias</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 16:46:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/#comment-312366</guid>
		<description>[...] de Juan B. Gutiérrez (2007, 12) y al magnífico blog de Noah Wardrip-Fruin Grand Text Auto, en su entrada del 23 de enero de 2008 titulada Authoring processes, concretamente en el apartado “Expresive AI”. En cuanto al segundo [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] de Juan B. Gutiérrez (2007, 12) y al magnífico blog de Noah Wardrip-Fruin Grand Text Auto, en su entrada del 23 de enero de 2008 titulada Authoring processes, concretamente en el apartado “Expresive AI”. En cuanto al segundo [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Barton</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/comment-page-1/#comment-239862</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Barton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 15:27:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/#comment-239862</guid>
		<description>I wonder if it&#039;s fair to say that Tetris was an &quot;early game&quot; to the Russians. I don&#039;t know how to compare our state of the art with theirs at the time, but I&#039;m curious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder if it&#8217;s fair to say that Tetris was an &#8220;early game&#8221; to the Russians. I don&#8217;t know how to compare our state of the art with theirs at the time, but I&#8217;m curious.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark M.</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/comment-page-1/#comment-223305</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 05:51:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/#comment-223305</guid>
		<description>I guess what I was saying is that all games seem to fall into this description.  However, your point may be most clearly illustrated by the kinds of contemporary symbolic games that we attribute to someone rather than the &quot;folk&quot; games that we have difficulty attributing to an &quot;author.&quot; 

Did someone make up &quot;Twenty Questions&quot; or did it just evolve over time from communal play?  If it did, then it is not the best model for authoring a process in the sense of a single-author -- though it certainly fits the parameters of what you are describing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess what I was saying is that all games seem to fall into this description.  However, your point may be most clearly illustrated by the kinds of contemporary symbolic games that we attribute to someone rather than the &#8220;folk&#8221; games that we have difficulty attributing to an &#8220;author.&#8221; </p>
<p>Did someone make up &#8220;Twenty Questions&#8221; or did it just evolve over time from communal play?  If it did, then it is not the best model for authoring a process in the sense of a single-author &#8212; though it certainly fits the parameters of what you are describing.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark M.</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/comment-page-1/#comment-223303</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 05:47:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/#comment-223303</guid>
		<description>Ah, I see, I was missing an &quot;and&quot; there.  That seems to suffice for the other readers ;).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, I see, I was missing an &#8220;and&#8221; there.  That seems to suffice for the other readers ;).</p>
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		<title>By: noah</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/comment-page-1/#comment-222056</link>
		<dc:creator>noah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Mar 2008 05:15:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/#comment-222056</guid>
		<description>This section is about authoring processes -- the act of it, not the later attribution of it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This section is about authoring processes &#8212; the act of it, not the later attribution of it.</p>
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		<title>By: noah</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/comment-page-1/#comment-222054</link>
		<dc:creator>noah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Mar 2008 05:13:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/#comment-222054</guid>
		<description>Do you read this sentence to say that music, video, and animation are the sorts of things found in spreadsheets? If so, I may really need to clarify it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you read this sentence to say that music, video, and animation are the sorts of things found in spreadsheets? If so, I may really need to clarify it!</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Marino</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/comment-page-1/#comment-221394</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Marino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 19:36:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/#comment-221394</guid>
		<description>Really the creation of all games, right?  Oral games (&quot;The Minister&#039;s Cat), school-yard games, et cetera.  Or is there some importance being placed on having an author to attribute the work to?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really the creation of all games, right?  Oral games (&#8220;The Minister&#8217;s Cat), school-yard games, et cetera.  Or is there some importance being placed on having an author to attribute the work to?</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Marino</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/comment-page-1/#comment-221390</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Marino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 19:31:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/#comment-221390</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m surprised you didn&#039;t use the word database here, especially since I don&#039;t usually associate &quot;spreadsheets&quot; with music, video, and animation.  Was that choice meant to avoid confusion or to be precise?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m surprised you didn&#8217;t use the word database here, especially since I don&#8217;t usually associate &#8220;spreadsheets&#8221; with music, video, and animation.  Was that choice meant to avoid confusion or to be precise?</p>
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		<title>By: noah</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/comment-page-1/#comment-205458</link>
		<dc:creator>noah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Feb 2008 00:08:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/#comment-205458</guid>
		<description>Randall, I think we&#039;re basically in agreement. The problem is in the text in this section. 

What this section is trying to argue against is the idea that &quot;Games are all about graphics.&quot; As people commenting on the next paragraph have pointed out, given the recent successes of systems like the Wii and games like &lt;i&gt;Guitar Hero,&lt;/i&gt; there just aren&#039;t many people around arguing that games are all about graphics anymore. (Even if, as Greg C points out, much of the production effort still is focused on graphics.)

I need to re-cast this section, making the discussion of process intensity more nuanced and focusing on how processes are key to defining &lt;i&gt;gameplay&lt;/i&gt; -- rather than something in a tug-of-war with graphics. The book is much more about the possibilities of new forms of gameplay and new fictional experiences, some of which are actually enabled by advances in graphics (as when I talk, in a later chapter, about the Improv project that was underway when I was at NYU).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Randall, I think we&#8217;re basically in agreement. The problem is in the text in this section. </p>
<p>What this section is trying to argue against is the idea that &#8220;Games are all about graphics.&#8221; As people commenting on the next paragraph have pointed out, given the recent successes of systems like the Wii and games like <i>Guitar Hero,</i> there just aren&#8217;t many people around arguing that games are all about graphics anymore. (Even if, as Greg C points out, much of the production effort still is focused on graphics.)</p>
<p>I need to re-cast this section, making the discussion of process intensity more nuanced and focusing on how processes are key to defining <i>gameplay</i> &#8212; rather than something in a tug-of-war with graphics. The book is much more about the possibilities of new forms of gameplay and new fictional experiences, some of which are actually enabled by advances in graphics (as when I talk, in a later chapter, about the Improv project that was underway when I was at NYU).</p>
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		<title>By: noah</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/comment-page-1/#comment-205453</link>
		<dc:creator>noah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Feb 2008 00:06:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/#comment-205453</guid>
		<description>Thanks for pointing that out. Perhaps it would be better to talk about the program generating handmade paper textures on the fly, along with simulated handling and age marks, just as each card is called into view, or something similar? That might also degrade usability, but not as harshly, and fit in with the &quot;let&#039;s make it more real&quot; aesthetic we see in some places.

I can imagine making a change like that, if an example of this sort survives the re-factoring of this section that seems necessary. But I may just start the section over from scratch.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for pointing that out. Perhaps it would be better to talk about the program generating handmade paper textures on the fly, along with simulated handling and age marks, just as each card is called into view, or something similar? That might also degrade usability, but not as harshly, and fit in with the &#8220;let&#8217;s make it more real&#8221; aesthetic we see in some places.</p>
<p>I can imagine making a change like that, if an example of this sort survives the re-factoring of this section that seems necessary. But I may just start the section over from scratch.</p>
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		<title>By: Randall Couch</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/comment-page-1/#comment-204587</link>
		<dc:creator>Randall Couch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2008 22:04:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/#comment-204587</guid>
		<description>Here and in graf 14 you imply that graphics v. behavioral processing is a zero-sum tradeoff in which some players vote for behavioral. Does this support a theoretical hierarchy of processing sophistication over experiential quality? 

This is partly a question of style and means, and partly one of the limits of the technology. Absent any technical constraints, some tasks are still best facilitated by simplifying and abstracting (the London Underground map); thus some games would logically feel more successful with such a design (like many age-old table games, e.g., go). Others might be most successful when they most closely approached the sci-fi grail of a completely immersive alternative reality whose texture was not distinguishable from everyday reality. (Paintball in a blasted Sarajevo with bombs falling). Each involves design choices.

Given technical constraints, behavioral and experiential processing may not both be optimizable. In that case, the second type of game I mention may yield a less satisfying user experience than the simpler game, because the shortcomings intrude more into the psychology of play.

My point is simply that the relationship of the game&#039;s created experience (for which &quot;graphics&quot; is a crude proxy) to the available behavior novelty and complexity seems much more complicated than the binary you draw; while companies may be luddite about how they want to apportion development effort, I&#039;d expect e-games twenty years from now to offer enormously greater sophistication and variety in *both* behavioral and experiential processing. 

I&#039;m still waiting for Huxley&#039;s wonderful pun-machine the scent-organ, which manipulates emotion via sequences of odors. What concerts, what games, we could play.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here and in graf 14 you imply that graphics v. behavioral processing is a zero-sum tradeoff in which some players vote for behavioral. Does this support a theoretical hierarchy of processing sophistication over experiential quality? </p>
<p>This is partly a question of style and means, and partly one of the limits of the technology. Absent any technical constraints, some tasks are still best facilitated by simplifying and abstracting (the London Underground map); thus some games would logically feel more successful with such a design (like many age-old table games, e.g., go). Others might be most successful when they most closely approached the sci-fi grail of a completely immersive alternative reality whose texture was not distinguishable from everyday reality. (Paintball in a blasted Sarajevo with bombs falling). Each involves design choices.</p>
<p>Given technical constraints, behavioral and experiential processing may not both be optimizable. In that case, the second type of game I mention may yield a less satisfying user experience than the simpler game, because the shortcomings intrude more into the psychology of play.</p>
<p>My point is simply that the relationship of the game&#8217;s created experience (for which &#8220;graphics&#8221; is a crude proxy) to the available behavior novelty and complexity seems much more complicated than the binary you draw; while companies may be luddite about how they want to apportion development effort, I&#8217;d expect e-games twenty years from now to offer enormously greater sophistication and variety in *both* behavioral and experiential processing. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m still waiting for Huxley&#8217;s wonderful pun-machine the scent-organ, which manipulates emotion via sequences of odors. What concerts, what games, we could play.</p>
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		<title>By: Randall Couch</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/comment-page-1/#comment-204578</link>
		<dc:creator>Randall Couch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2008 21:40:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/#comment-204578</guid>
		<description>Your analogy of adding glitzy volume and surface effects to recipe typography may be improvable. To add such effects would not only be a wasteful or trivial use of processing resources (which I take to be your point) but it would not have a neutral bearing on the usability of the recipe program--it would certainly degrade it (see Tufte to start with). Thus you may be starting another hare you don&#039;t really want to chase here by your choice of illustration.

You also imply here that improved graphics quality in e-games is a trivial component of the user experience, compared to process complexity, prior to stating and supporting that argument in graf 13ff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your analogy of adding glitzy volume and surface effects to recipe typography may be improvable. To add such effects would not only be a wasteful or trivial use of processing resources (which I take to be your point) but it would not have a neutral bearing on the usability of the recipe program&#8211;it would certainly degrade it (see Tufte to start with). Thus you may be starting another hare you don&#8217;t really want to chase here by your choice of illustration.</p>
<p>You also imply here that improved graphics quality in e-games is a trivial component of the user experience, compared to process complexity, prior to stating and supporting that argument in graf 13ff.</p>
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		<title>By: noah</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/comment-page-1/#comment-199171</link>
		<dc:creator>noah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 06:37:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/#comment-199171</guid>
		<description>Sol, in response to your comment above: good point. I&#039;m not writing a book primarily about the public&#039;s taste in games, but it seems clear from Schiesel’s piece and other evidence that what&#039;s expanding the game market is an expansion of the models and themes of play. The Sims, with its complex landscape for crafting everyday behavior of human characters, is just one direction for expansion. Games like Guitar Hero and systems like the Wii represent other directions. (Sorry I can&#039;t respond above, but currently CommentPress only supports three levels of comments.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sol, in response to your comment above: good point. I&#8217;m not writing a book primarily about the public&#8217;s taste in games, but it seems clear from Schiesel’s piece and other evidence that what&#8217;s expanding the game market is an expansion of the models and themes of play. The Sims, with its complex landscape for crafting everyday behavior of human characters, is just one direction for expansion. Games like Guitar Hero and systems like the Wii represent other directions. (Sorry I can&#8217;t respond above, but currently CommentPress only supports three levels of comments.)</p>
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		<title>By: sol gaitán</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/comment-page-1/#comment-198860</link>
		<dc:creator>sol gaitán</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Feb 2008 17:30:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/#comment-198860</guid>
		<description>Seth Schiesel&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/01/arts/01game.html?_r=1&amp;scp=2&amp;sq=computer+games&amp;st=nyt&amp;oref=slogin&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;recent article&lt;/a&gt; in the NY Times says that the list of the 10 top-selling console games of 2007 released recently by the market research company NPD Group, &quot;highlights the soaring popularity of mass-market franchises like Guitar Hero and the Wii at the expense of critically acclaimed projects aimed at the same young-male audience the industry has relied on for years. (As recently as 2006, sales charts were covered with single-player diversions and sports games.)&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seth Schiesel&#8217;s <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/01/arts/01game.html?_r=1&amp;scp=2&amp;sq=computer+games&amp;st=nyt&amp;oref=slogin" rel="nofollow">recent article</a> in the NY Times says that the list of the 10 top-selling console games of 2007 released recently by the market research company NPD Group, &#8220;highlights the soaring popularity of mass-market franchises like Guitar Hero and the Wii at the expense of critically acclaimed projects aimed at the same young-male audience the industry has relied on for years. (As recently as 2006, sales charts were covered with single-player diversions and sports games.)&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: noah</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/comment-page-1/#comment-198260</link>
		<dc:creator>noah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Feb 2008 04:00:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/#comment-198260</guid>
		<description>I think you&#039;re right. &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.manifestogames.com/node/2348&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Greg&lt;/a&gt; is making a somewhat different point from &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.erasmatazz.com/library/JCGD_Volume_1/Process_Intensity.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Chris,&lt;/a&gt; then I make a somewhat different one in turn, and after that I try to take the discussion to a further point. But the current version of the chapter doesn&#039;t make the shifts clear. 

So I should revise the chapter&#039;s text. Perhaps with clearer markers at the borders between ideas -- or maybe by not flying over this territory at such speed. I guess my inclination is to try the markers approach first, because I don&#039;t want this to turn into a chapter about process intensity. Or, as you say, it might even be better to choose a quote from Greg&#039;s treatment that doesn&#039;t introduce his shift in the concept, or I could not quote him at all in the main text. Then I&#039;d be juggling fewer concepts in this short section (and I could still talk about Greg&#039;s approach in a footnote).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you&#8217;re right. <a href="http://www.manifestogames.com/node/2348" rel="nofollow">Greg</a> is making a somewhat different point from <a href="http://www.erasmatazz.com/library/JCGD_Volume_1/Process_Intensity.html" rel="nofollow">Chris,</a> then I make a somewhat different one in turn, and after that I try to take the discussion to a further point. But the current version of the chapter doesn&#8217;t make the shifts clear. </p>
<p>So I should revise the chapter&#8217;s text. Perhaps with clearer markers at the borders between ideas &#8212; or maybe by not flying over this territory at such speed. I guess my inclination is to try the markers approach first, because I don&#8217;t want this to turn into a chapter about process intensity. Or, as you say, it might even be better to choose a quote from Greg&#8217;s treatment that doesn&#8217;t introduce his shift in the concept, or I could not quote him at all in the main text. Then I&#8217;d be juggling fewer concepts in this short section (and I could still talk about Greg&#8217;s approach in a footnote).</p>
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		<title>By: josh g.</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/comment-page-1/#comment-197520</link>
		<dc:creator>josh g.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Feb 2008 06:48:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/#comment-197520</guid>
		<description>Somewhere here I&#039;m getting lost in mixed definitions, specifically what we&#039;re measuring the intensity of.  This paragraph starts off by introducing a rethinking of the concept, but I&#039;m already juggling two different concepts: process intensity measured by how the resulting media behaves, and process intensity measured by how development time is spent.

Perhaps Costikyan&#039;s intention was to say that the two are linked, but I don&#039;t think that&#039;s a given.  eg. discussion below on The Sims having had plenty of art asset production itself.

I&#039;m echoing what&#039;s been said below a little, but I wanted to drop a comment further up here since this is where it started to seem a bit confused to me.  Any chance there&#039;s a quote from Costikyan&#039;s article that doesn&#039;t bring relative production time into the discussion?  I know it was central to what he was saying, but it doesn&#039;t seem to fit into your main point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Somewhere here I&#8217;m getting lost in mixed definitions, specifically what we&#8217;re measuring the intensity of.  This paragraph starts off by introducing a rethinking of the concept, but I&#8217;m already juggling two different concepts: process intensity measured by how the resulting media behaves, and process intensity measured by how development time is spent.</p>
<p>Perhaps Costikyan&#8217;s intention was to say that the two are linked, but I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s a given.  eg. discussion below on The Sims having had plenty of art asset production itself.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m echoing what&#8217;s been said below a little, but I wanted to drop a comment further up here since this is where it started to seem a bit confused to me.  Any chance there&#8217;s a quote from Costikyan&#8217;s article that doesn&#8217;t bring relative production time into the discussion?  I know it was central to what he was saying, but it doesn&#8217;t seem to fit into your main point.</p>
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		<title>By: noah</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/comment-page-1/#comment-191768</link>
		<dc:creator>noah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 17:28:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/#comment-191768</guid>
		<description>Barry, you&#039;re absolutely correct about the lack of certainty, but I&#039;m not sure we can get much further than &quot;seems&quot; in matters of this sort. Maxis isn&#039;t going to do a controlled experiment, releasing four versions of The Sims -- with high/low levels of graphical fidelity and behavioral complexity. Perhaps the only thing we can conclude with certainty is that complex behavioral processing isn&#039;t so repellent to audiences that they refused to buy The Sims. But I&#039;m personally convinced, even though I don&#039;t think it can be proven, that the gameplay of The Sims is a major factor in its success. That gameplay is founded on comparatively innovative and intense behavioral processing, compared with other games of the period. This is the point I&#039;m trying to make, which I clearly need to keep thinking about how to clarify in the main text.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Barry, you&#8217;re absolutely correct about the lack of certainty, but I&#8217;m not sure we can get much further than &#8220;seems&#8221; in matters of this sort. Maxis isn&#8217;t going to do a controlled experiment, releasing four versions of The Sims &#8212; with high/low levels of graphical fidelity and behavioral complexity. Perhaps the only thing we can conclude with certainty is that complex behavioral processing isn&#8217;t so repellent to audiences that they refused to buy The Sims. But I&#8217;m personally convinced, even though I don&#8217;t think it can be proven, that the gameplay of The Sims is a major factor in its success. That gameplay is founded on comparatively innovative and intense behavioral processing, compared with other games of the period. This is the point I&#8217;m trying to make, which I clearly need to keep thinking about how to clarify in the main text.</p>
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		<title>By: Barry</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/comment-page-1/#comment-191359</link>
		<dc:creator>Barry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 09:51:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/#comment-191359</guid>
		<description>I suppose I am still a little uneasy about the implications of this example. If, to use the analogy above, this were to be a ‘vote’ then it isn’t a straightforward vote between procedural intensity and intensity of graphics. And Greg Costikyan’s 80/20 split in development expense might even remain true of a title such as The Sims. I can see how this argument works with Introversion’s Darwinia (but that title hasn’t got the sales of The Sims), or how experience of the Wii has foregrounded the short sightedness of relying on a technologically dependent ramping up of rendering effects and detail levels (rather than gameplay novelty – but the Wii isn’t exactly home to much procedural intensity either) to attract new consumers, but it wasn’t a question of presenting consumers and players of The Sims with either intensity of graphics or procedural intensity. Rather The Sims added interesting behaviours inside a game which wasn’t markedly inferior in what was on screen to other titles of its time. Until Company of Heroes I would have expected less intensity of graphics in an RTS than in an FPS because there is a balance, always, between more assets and the level of realisation of individual assets, both in the costs of making each asset and its processing cost when on screen.  So my key issue would be that you claim players are voting with their feet for procedural intensity, and using The Sims as the example, but there are so many other possible reasons for the success of The Sims – particularly the fact that this was a different kind of content that had appeal to a different demographic – that it seems to weaken the claim of what players are ‘voting’ for. Your clarification is certainly helpful, but the statement that “this innovative behavioral model, and its emergent complexity, seems to have been key to its success” turns on ‘seems’, while I can imagine the reasoning behind those executives unwilling to greenlight procedurally intensive projects is informed by the same lack of certainty that this was what was responsible for its sales.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suppose I am still a little uneasy about the implications of this example. If, to use the analogy above, this were to be a ‘vote’ then it isn’t a straightforward vote between procedural intensity and intensity of graphics. And Greg Costikyan’s 80/20 split in development expense might even remain true of a title such as The Sims. I can see how this argument works with Introversion’s Darwinia (but that title hasn’t got the sales of The Sims), or how experience of the Wii has foregrounded the short sightedness of relying on a technologically dependent ramping up of rendering effects and detail levels (rather than gameplay novelty – but the Wii isn’t exactly home to much procedural intensity either) to attract new consumers, but it wasn’t a question of presenting consumers and players of The Sims with either intensity of graphics or procedural intensity. Rather The Sims added interesting behaviours inside a game which wasn’t markedly inferior in what was on screen to other titles of its time. Until Company of Heroes I would have expected less intensity of graphics in an RTS than in an FPS because there is a balance, always, between more assets and the level of realisation of individual assets, both in the costs of making each asset and its processing cost when on screen.  So my key issue would be that you claim players are voting with their feet for procedural intensity, and using The Sims as the example, but there are so many other possible reasons for the success of The Sims – particularly the fact that this was a different kind of content that had appeal to a different demographic – that it seems to weaken the claim of what players are ‘voting’ for. Your clarification is certainly helpful, but the statement that “this innovative behavioral model, and its emergent complexity, seems to have been key to its success” turns on ‘seems’, while I can imagine the reasoning behind those executives unwilling to greenlight procedurally intensive projects is informed by the same lack of certainty that this was what was responsible for its sales.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Lewis</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/comment-page-1/#comment-191223</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Lewis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 23:25:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/#comment-191223</guid>
		<description>Noah,
I agree with both the clarified points you make, but I probably would say that the first point is too weak to include. The industry has not always been focused on graphics, and there have always been games that have eschewed the graphical race in order to spend more time focused on the core game. Myst is a wonderful example of going too far down the graphical route, as are a lot of the early CD-ROM games. The industry as a whole isn&#039;t always on the bleeding edge, and does recognise that you don&#039;t have to have the latest whizzy graphics. I don&#039;t think Will Wright would have found this to be a hard sell; none of the Sim games were particularly complex graphically.

I definitely think that the second point is a strong one, and you&#039;ve clarified it well. The emergent complexity is what drove the game, but it would be very hard for people to have properly visualised the challenge (I can see Wright now: &quot;So you&#039;re trying to drink an espresso to get awake, while trying to eat cereal and you&#039;ll need to take the trash out before you go to work. Trust me, it&#039;ll be fun!&quot;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Noah,<br />
I agree with both the clarified points you make, but I probably would say that the first point is too weak to include. The industry has not always been focused on graphics, and there have always been games that have eschewed the graphical race in order to spend more time focused on the core game. Myst is a wonderful example of going too far down the graphical route, as are a lot of the early CD-ROM games. The industry as a whole isn&#8217;t always on the bleeding edge, and does recognise that you don&#8217;t have to have the latest whizzy graphics. I don&#8217;t think Will Wright would have found this to be a hard sell; none of the Sim games were particularly complex graphically.</p>
<p>I definitely think that the second point is a strong one, and you&#8217;ve clarified it well. The emergent complexity is what drove the game, but it would be very hard for people to have properly visualised the challenge (I can see Wright now: &#8220;So you&#8217;re trying to drink an espresso to get awake, while trying to eat cereal and you&#8217;ll need to take the trash out before you go to work. Trust me, it&#8217;ll be fun!&#8221;)</p>
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		<title>By: noah</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/comment-page-1/#comment-191199</link>
		<dc:creator>noah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 22:27:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/#comment-191199</guid>
		<description>You&#039;ve hit upon a sticky question here. In some earlier work I tried to distinguish between different forms and roles of computation in a finer-grained way. But I felt that I was getting caught up in defining the categories too much, and for that reason spending less time on the analysis that the categories were meant to support. It&#039;s a tricky balance, and one I&#039;ll probably need to revisit in the future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;ve hit upon a sticky question here. In some earlier work I tried to distinguish between different forms and roles of computation in a finer-grained way. But I felt that I was getting caught up in defining the categories too much, and for that reason spending less time on the analysis that the categories were meant to support. It&#8217;s a tricky balance, and one I&#8217;ll probably need to revisit in the future.</p>
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		<title>By: noah</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/comment-page-1/#comment-191195</link>
		<dc:creator>noah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 22:23:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/#comment-191195</guid>
		<description>Hmmm. I think these are good points, but they&#039;re not on exactly the topic I&#039;m trying to address. I&#039;m intertwining two points in this paragraph -- and maybe neither is coming through clearly. 

The simple point is that the original version of The Sims intentionally used simple graphics, and comparatively low-end graphical processing, rather than latest high-end lighting and so on ... but this did not stand in the way of its success. 

The more complex point (which is also more important to my argument) is that the original version of The Sims used an innovative model of character behavior that creates an emergent complexity. This was seen as risky by the industry (which tends to re-skin proven models, that also are generally simpler models). But this innovative behavioral model, and its emergent complexity, seems to have been key to its success.

Of course, the problem I have making these points may be, rather than the fact that they are intertwined, the fact that they follow Crawford and Costikyan talking about huge amounts of data. It&#039;s definitely the case that The Sims has a huge asset library. But it combines these assets with behavioral processing that is both comparatively intense and comparatively innovative, when stacked up against other contemporary games.

So, this leads me to two questions. First, do you buy the clarified points above? Second, if so, any ideas how to make them clearer in the main text? (For example, should I consider a footnote, should I revise this paragraph, should I restructure this whole section?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm. I think these are good points, but they&#8217;re not on exactly the topic I&#8217;m trying to address. I&#8217;m intertwining two points in this paragraph &#8212; and maybe neither is coming through clearly. </p>
<p>The simple point is that the original version of The Sims intentionally used simple graphics, and comparatively low-end graphical processing, rather than latest high-end lighting and so on &#8230; but this did not stand in the way of its success. </p>
<p>The more complex point (which is also more important to my argument) is that the original version of The Sims used an innovative model of character behavior that creates an emergent complexity. This was seen as risky by the industry (which tends to re-skin proven models, that also are generally simpler models). But this innovative behavioral model, and its emergent complexity, seems to have been key to its success.</p>
<p>Of course, the problem I have making these points may be, rather than the fact that they are intertwined, the fact that they follow Crawford and Costikyan talking about huge amounts of data. It&#8217;s definitely the case that The Sims has a huge asset library. But it combines these assets with behavioral processing that is both comparatively intense and comparatively innovative, when stacked up against other contemporary games.</p>
<p>So, this leads me to two questions. First, do you buy the clarified points above? Second, if so, any ideas how to make them clearer in the main text? (For example, should I consider a footnote, should I revise this paragraph, should I restructure this whole section?)</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Lewis</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/comment-page-1/#comment-191171</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Lewis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 20:22:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/#comment-191171</guid>
		<description>I think Barry is right here. I don&#039;t know if Wright freed himself from spending time on photorealistic graphics in order to spend man-hours on the gameplay instead? The effort to put all the art assets in The Sims must have been pretty close to what it was taking to produce more realistic games with less scope. Looking at the PC games that were around in 2000, like Deus Ex and Crimson Skies, I&#039;m not able to find a particularly strong example of something that must have taken much more time than The Sims. You&#039;d need to have an actual citation of Wright stating this was the case for me to fully accept it.

The paragraph also seems that it might be trying to make the point that it is that the low-end graphics appealed to the &quot;wider audience&quot;, which is something I would agree with. Obviously there was no danger of The Sims skirting around the Uncanny Valley, but it was simple enough to allow players to project their own ideas and personalities onto the Sims. By purposefully avoiding geek stereotypes of orcs/elves/heaving breasts/space marines, a wider audience was definitely enticed. However, this doesn&#039;t reach the paragraph&#039;s eventual conclusion of innovating behavioural systems being as valid a path to a hit game as using flashier graphics on standard mechanics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Barry is right here. I don&#8217;t know if Wright freed himself from spending time on photorealistic graphics in order to spend man-hours on the gameplay instead? The effort to put all the art assets in The Sims must have been pretty close to what it was taking to produce more realistic games with less scope. Looking at the PC games that were around in 2000, like Deus Ex and Crimson Skies, I&#8217;m not able to find a particularly strong example of something that must have taken much more time than The Sims. You&#8217;d need to have an actual citation of Wright stating this was the case for me to fully accept it.</p>
<p>The paragraph also seems that it might be trying to make the point that it is that the low-end graphics appealed to the &#8220;wider audience&#8221;, which is something I would agree with. Obviously there was no danger of The Sims skirting around the Uncanny Valley, but it was simple enough to allow players to project their own ideas and personalities onto the Sims. By purposefully avoiding geek stereotypes of orcs/elves/heaving breasts/space marines, a wider audience was definitely enticed. However, this doesn&#8217;t reach the paragraph&#8217;s eventual conclusion of innovating behavioural systems being as valid a path to a hit game as using flashier graphics on standard mechanics.</p>
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		<title>By: Terry</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/comment-page-1/#comment-190921</link>
		<dc:creator>Terry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 13:05:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/#comment-190921</guid>
		<description>I like iconic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like iconic.</p>
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		<title>By: Barry</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/comment-page-1/#comment-190644</link>
		<dc:creator>Barry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 07:53:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/#comment-190644</guid>
		<description>I would query your characterisation of The Sims here. Sure, it can run on moderate hardware, but the sheer number of art assets created for the game is phenomenal. I can only guess at how many artists work on each iteration of the Sims, but that art department is there for a reason? A lot of the game art assets created have no real procedural function (we decorate our houses and play dress up, as well as play with the lives of our Sims) and I wonder if the understanding of graphics intensity here is a little crude (number of polys on screen at any one time) rather than recognising the way in which The Sims is also a visual toybox that has followed industry norms, but by ramping up graphic volume rather than intensity. The extent to which the in-game camera function in later iterations has been used for machinima making, rather than simply recording the ‘lives’ of the Sims, might indicate that the visual possibilities offered by the game are important to some players? Those art assets might not put a heavy processing load on a PC (although my memory of The Sims 2 was that it ran like a donkey on my fairly high spec PC) but they sure eat up a lot of space (along with all the sound files) on my hard drive, and in that sense at least this is an extremely data-heavy title. I understand the focus of your study, but isn’t the player of The Sims assumed (by Wright, EA and originally Maxis) to be deeply concerned with ‘what the surface output looks like’? That the surface wasn’t filled with mud-brown space marines and blood splatter particle effects might account for some of the other drivers you allude to as responsible for its commercial success? There are two uses of &#039;in part&#039; close together in this paragraph that might also indicate the need for a note that at least flags the extent to which The Sims is not an extreme alternative to graphically intensive games?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would query your characterisation of The Sims here. Sure, it can run on moderate hardware, but the sheer number of art assets created for the game is phenomenal. I can only guess at how many artists work on each iteration of the Sims, but that art department is there for a reason? A lot of the game art assets created have no real procedural function (we decorate our houses and play dress up, as well as play with the lives of our Sims) and I wonder if the understanding of graphics intensity here is a little crude (number of polys on screen at any one time) rather than recognising the way in which The Sims is also a visual toybox that has followed industry norms, but by ramping up graphic volume rather than intensity. The extent to which the in-game camera function in later iterations has been used for machinima making, rather than simply recording the ‘lives’ of the Sims, might indicate that the visual possibilities offered by the game are important to some players? Those art assets might not put a heavy processing load on a PC (although my memory of The Sims 2 was that it ran like a donkey on my fairly high spec PC) but they sure eat up a lot of space (along with all the sound files) on my hard drive, and in that sense at least this is an extremely data-heavy title. I understand the focus of your study, but isn’t the player of The Sims assumed (by Wright, EA and originally Maxis) to be deeply concerned with ‘what the surface output looks like’? That the surface wasn’t filled with mud-brown space marines and blood splatter particle effects might account for some of the other drivers you allude to as responsible for its commercial success? There are two uses of &#8216;in part&#8217; close together in this paragraph that might also indicate the need for a note that at least flags the extent to which The Sims is not an extreme alternative to graphically intensive games?</p>
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		<title>By: noah</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/comment-page-1/#comment-190472</link>
		<dc:creator>noah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 21:43:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/#comment-190472</guid>
		<description>How about a word like &quot;iconic&quot; instead of &quot;early&quot;? I think that gets at what I mean about these games, without opening the door to people wondering, &quot;Does he actually know when Tetris first appeared?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about a word like &#8220;iconic&#8221; instead of &#8220;early&#8221;? I think that gets at what I mean about these games, without opening the door to people wondering, &#8220;Does he actually know when Tetris first appeared?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Terry</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/comment-page-1/#comment-190197</link>
		<dc:creator>Terry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 19:33:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/#comment-190197</guid>
		<description>@Nick

I think this is like calling Murnau&#039;s Sunrise an early movie and then calling 2001 an early movie in the same breath.  I don&#039;t think it&#039;s useful to lump 13 years worth gaming in one &quot;early&quot; category.  I think another example of an early game in this statement, which is essentially an aside, would be less jarring for the reader.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Nick</p>
<p>I think this is like calling Murnau&#8217;s Sunrise an early movie and then calling 2001 an early movie in the same breath.  I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s useful to lump 13 years worth gaming in one &#8220;early&#8221; category.  I think another example of an early game in this statement, which is essentially an aside, would be less jarring for the reader.</p>
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		<title>By: nick</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/comment-page-1/#comment-190159</link>
		<dc:creator>nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 19:11:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/#comment-190159</guid>
		<description>A lot happened between 1972 and 1985, but I&#039;m sure contemporary game developers consider &lt;i&gt;Tetris&lt;/i&gt; an early game - I think even something like &lt;i&gt;System Shock&lt;/i&gt; could count as an early game by now, in many discussions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A lot happened between 1972 and 1985, but I&#8217;m sure contemporary game developers consider <i>Tetris</i> an early game &#8211; I think even something like <i>System Shock</i> could count as an early game by now, in many discussions.</p>
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		<title>By: Lord Yo</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/comment-page-1/#comment-190108</link>
		<dc:creator>Lord Yo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 16:50:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/#comment-190108</guid>
		<description>If rendering graphics is a process, rendering behavior that is expressed graphically is a meta-process. Of course it doesn&#039;t make sense to painstakingly distinguish between discrete meta-levels as each compiling / chunking / condensing step in terms of programming creates its own level (starting at the binary level) - in other words, we don&#039;t need to map out what those levels are in detail. However it might make sense to become aware about the rudimentary distance between those levels - which you are touching upon in this subchapter &quot;process intensity&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If rendering graphics is a process, rendering behavior that is expressed graphically is a meta-process. Of course it doesn&#8217;t make sense to painstakingly distinguish between discrete meta-levels as each compiling / chunking / condensing step in terms of programming creates its own level (starting at the binary level) &#8211; in other words, we don&#8217;t need to map out what those levels are in detail. However it might make sense to become aware about the rudimentary distance between those levels &#8211; which you are touching upon in this subchapter &#8220;process intensity&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Lord Yo</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/comment-page-1/#comment-190104</link>
		<dc:creator>Lord Yo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 16:35:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/#comment-190104</guid>
		<description>I second Terry&#039;s opinion. It is a good example for a game with simple rules, but certainly not an early game.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I second Terry&#8217;s opinion. It is a good example for a game with simple rules, but certainly not an early game.</p>
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		<title>By: Terry</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/comment-page-1/#comment-190088</link>
		<dc:creator>Terry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 15:13:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/2008/01/23/ep-12-authoring-processes/#comment-190088</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure that I would use Tetris as an example of an early computer game.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure that I would use Tetris as an example of an early computer game.</p>
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