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	<title>Comments on: Second Person Preview</title>
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	<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2006/03/12/second-person-preview/</link>
	<description>A group blog about computer narrative, games, poetry, and art.</description>
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		<title>By: Networked_Performance &#8212; Second Person:</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2006/03/12/second-person-preview/comment-page-1/#comment-120331</link>
		<dc:creator>Networked_Performance &#8212; Second Person:</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Aug 2007 17:44:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/?p=1115#comment-120331</guid>
		<description>[...] of a new edited volume: Second Person: Role-Playing and Story in Games and Playable Media (table of contents, Booksense link, ISBN.nu link). Like First Person, Second Per [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of a new edited volume: Second Person: Role-Playing and Story in Games and Playable Media (table of contents, Booksense link, ISBN.nu link). Like First Person, Second Per [...]</p>
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		<title>By: the full-text abduction of paul czege</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2006/03/12/second-person-preview/comment-page-1/#comment-119462</link>
		<dc:creator>the full-text abduction of paul czege</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2007 03:41:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/?p=1115#comment-119462</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Noah Wardrip-Fruin releases Second Person table of contents&lt;/strong&gt;

[link]

My piece is a breezy 750 word shriek of narrativist pain and design fervor. Can&#039;t wait to read the rest of them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Noah Wardrip-Fruin releases Second Person table of contents</strong></p>
<p>[link]</p>
<p>My piece is a breezy 750 word shriek of narrativist pain and design fervor. Can&#8217;t wait to read the rest of them.</p>
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		<title>By: Noah Wardrip-Fruin  &#187; Second Person arrives</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2006/03/12/second-person-preview/comment-page-1/#comment-106131</link>
		<dc:creator>Noah Wardrip-Fruin  &#187; Second Person arrives</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jan 2007 16:12:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/?p=1115#comment-106131</guid>
		<description>[...] les, drawing on the insights of a diverse set of contributors.  To learn more, check out:  the table of contents, the introduction, Booksense&#8217;s link to a local book [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] les, drawing on the insights of a diverse set of contributors.  To learn more, check out:  the table of contents, the introduction, Booksense&#8217;s link to a local book [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Grand Text Auto &#187; Second Person for Sale</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2006/03/12/second-person-preview/comment-page-1/#comment-106122</link>
		<dc:creator>Grand Text Auto &#187; Second Person for Sale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jan 2007 05:06:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/?p=1115#comment-106122</guid>
		<description>[...] of a new edited volume: Second Person: Role-Playing and Story in Games and Playable Media (table of contents, Booksense link, ISBN.nu link). 	Like First Person, Second Pe [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of a new edited volume: Second Person: Role-Playing and Story in Games and Playable Media (table of contents, Booksense link, ISBN.nu link). 	Like First Person, Second Pe [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jill</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2006/03/12/second-person-preview/comment-page-1/#comment-101822</link>
		<dc:creator>Jill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Dec 2006 14:47:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/?p=1115#comment-101822</guid>
		<description>Is this actually out now? Amazon has it listed as having come out on November 1, but also have a 2-3 week delivery time on it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is this actually out now? Amazon has it listed as having come out on November 1, but also have a 2-3 week delivery time on it.</p>
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		<title>By: WRT: Writer Response Theory  &#187; Blog Archive   &#187; The Second First Person</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2006/03/12/second-person-preview/comment-page-1/#comment-83003</link>
		<dc:creator>WRT: Writer Response Theory  &#187; Blog Archive   &#187; The Second First Person</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Apr 2006 07:05:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/?p=1115#comment-83003</guid>
		<description>[...] Games and Playable Media is due out in November 2006, but a preview of the table of contents is now available. The anthology will feature t [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Games and Playable Media is due out in November 2006, but a preview of the table of contents is now available. The anthology will feature t [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Pat Harrigan</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2006/03/12/second-person-preview/comment-page-1/#comment-83002</link>
		<dc:creator>Pat Harrigan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Apr 2006 00:45:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/?p=1115#comment-83002</guid>
		<description>Will, thanks for noticing that! MITP has now added all the overlooked names, so I think the list is accurate now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will, thanks for noticing that! MITP has now added all the overlooked names, so I think the list is accurate now.</p>
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		<title>By: noah</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2006/03/12/second-person-preview/comment-page-1/#comment-82944</link>
		<dc:creator>noah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Apr 2006 02:01:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/?p=1115#comment-82944</guid>
		<description>Sorry about that Will! 

And, unfortunately, it doesn&#039;t look like you&#039;re alone. The page is also missing Lee Sheldon, Mark Keavney, Sean Thorne, Nick Fortugno, and Teri Rueb from the list of authors. Perhaps we hit some sort of upper maximum? Anyway, Pat and I are writing to the press about it.

As for length, it probably won&#039;t actually get to 800 pages, since we&#039;ll be using the same design we used for &lt;i&gt;First Person.&lt;/i&gt; It&#039;s two-column, and on larger paper than the usual MIT book. I think the 800 page estimate is based on their usual layout.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry about that Will! </p>
<p>And, unfortunately, it doesn&#8217;t look like you&#8217;re alone. The page is also missing Lee Sheldon, Mark Keavney, Sean Thorne, Nick Fortugno, and Teri Rueb from the list of authors. Perhaps we hit some sort of upper maximum? Anyway, Pat and I are writing to the press about it.</p>
<p>As for length, it probably won&#8217;t actually get to 800 pages, since we&#8217;ll be using the same design we used for <i>First Person.</i> It&#8217;s two-column, and on larger paper than the usual MIT book. I think the 800 page estimate is based on their usual layout.</p>
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		<title>By: Will Hindmarch</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2006/03/12/second-person-preview/comment-page-1/#comment-82936</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Hindmarch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Mar 2006 07:18:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/?p=1115#comment-82936</guid>
		<description>They sure do have a catalog page. Thanks for pointing me at that. (My, uh, name&#039;s been left off the contributor&#039;s list, btw.)

I&#039;ll see if I can&#039;t find places to post that link that might generate some sales.

I&#039;m not surprised you reached 800 pages, either. Complete games like &lt;i&gt;Puppetland&lt;/i&gt; and &lt;i&gt;Munchausen&lt;/i&gt; (the two that I&#039;ve read thus far) are books in their own right!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They sure do have a catalog page. Thanks for pointing me at that. (My, uh, name&#8217;s been left off the contributor&#8217;s list, btw.)</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll see if I can&#8217;t find places to post that link that might generate some sales.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not surprised you reached 800 pages, either. Complete games like <i>Puppetland</i> and <i>Munchausen</i> (the two that I&#8217;ve read thus far) are books in their own right!</p>
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		<title>By: Ian Bogost</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2006/03/12/second-person-preview/comment-page-1/#comment-82916</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Bogost</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Mar 2006 15:58:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/?p=1115#comment-82916</guid>
		<description>800pp?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>800pp?</p>
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		<title>By: noah</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2006/03/12/second-person-preview/comment-page-1/#comment-82914</link>
		<dc:creator>noah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Mar 2006 15:04:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/?p=1115#comment-82914</guid>
		<description>Will -- We&#039;re glad you like the ToC, but there&#039;s no need to be so modest! Pat and I are excited to have you as a contributor.

Also, it looks like MITP now has &lt;a href=&quot;http://mitpress.mit.edu/0262083566&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a catalog page for &lt;i&gt;Second Person&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/a&gt; online, with an ISBN and a tentative November publication date.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will &#8212; We&#8217;re glad you like the ToC, but there&#8217;s no need to be so modest! Pat and I are excited to have you as a contributor.</p>
<p>Also, it looks like MITP now has <a href="http://mitpress.mit.edu/0262083566" rel="nofollow">a catalog page for <i>Second Person</i></a> online, with an ISBN and a tentative November publication date.</p>
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		<title>By: Will Hindmarch</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2006/03/12/second-person-preview/comment-page-1/#comment-82905</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Hindmarch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Mar 2006 04:16:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/?p=1115#comment-82905</guid>
		<description>Somehow I missed this post when it was new. Seeing the ToC now, I am deeply nervous. Hopefully nobody will see my article in the glare of all those others. What a brilliant slew you&#039;ve managed to squeeze into that book!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Somehow I missed this post when it was new. Seeing the ToC now, I am deeply nervous. Hopefully nobody will see my article in the glare of all those others. What a brilliant slew you&#8217;ve managed to squeeze into that book!</p>
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		<title>By: jill/txt &#187; second person (and my first ever publication on WoW)</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2006/03/12/second-person-preview/comment-page-1/#comment-82700</link>
		<dc:creator>jill/txt &#187; second person (and my first ever publication on WoW)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Mar 2006 13:40:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/?p=1115#comment-82700</guid>
		<description>[...]   jill/txt      15/3/2006	  [second person (and my first ever publication on WoW)] 	  	The table of contents for the Second Person anthology is out - I have a short piece [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]   jill/txt      15/3/2006	  [second person (and my first ever publication on WoW)] 	  	The table of contents for the Second Person anthology is out &#8211; I have a short piece [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2006/03/12/second-person-preview/comment-page-1/#comment-82684</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Mar 2006 16:35:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/?p=1115#comment-82684</guid>
		<description>I think it would be better laid out as a trilogy, since there is no such thing as 4th person perspective in literature. Maybe in interactivity, as the player blends from an empty vessel to a direct gesthalt to a character platform, the transfusion of perspectives creates a 4th person perspective of the procedurality of the transfusion itself. But that just sounds crazy, doesn&#039;t it?

Reading the intro paragraphs, I&#039;m happy to see I was fairly close to the over arching topic. What strikes me reading the Collosal Cave example is that having the responsiblity of navigating those twisty little passages soley put on &quot;you&quot; (that is me, or whomever is playing) is a bit of a turn-off for all but the niche hardcore enthusiast. I think the mainstream would prefer having some direction and initial momentum int he form of a 3rd person character platform through which their agency can be nurtured. This is the commercial and aethetic promise of interactive drama.

On a slightly tangential note, maybe this is worth another post, but do you all think &quot;Drama Game&quot; is a good term to describe Facade, Storytron products, Utopia ect? It certainly is more implicative to people who already play games and who are in the industry, but may be alienatating to non-gamers who automatically see games a childish or not enjoyable to them. What do you all think?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it would be better laid out as a trilogy, since there is no such thing as 4th person perspective in literature. Maybe in interactivity, as the player blends from an empty vessel to a direct gesthalt to a character platform, the transfusion of perspectives creates a 4th person perspective of the procedurality of the transfusion itself. But that just sounds crazy, doesn&#8217;t it?</p>
<p>Reading the intro paragraphs, I&#8217;m happy to see I was fairly close to the over arching topic. What strikes me reading the Collosal Cave example is that having the responsiblity of navigating those twisty little passages soley put on &#8220;you&#8221; (that is me, or whomever is playing) is a bit of a turn-off for all but the niche hardcore enthusiast. I think the mainstream would prefer having some direction and initial momentum int he form of a 3rd person character platform through which their agency can be nurtured. This is the commercial and aethetic promise of interactive drama.</p>
<p>On a slightly tangential note, maybe this is worth another post, but do you all think &#8220;Drama Game&#8221; is a good term to describe Facade, Storytron products, Utopia ect? It certainly is more implicative to people who already play games and who are in the industry, but may be alienatating to non-gamers who automatically see games a childish or not enjoyable to them. What do you all think?</p>
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		<title>By: andrew</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2006/03/12/second-person-preview/comment-page-1/#comment-82682</link>
		<dc:creator>andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Mar 2006 04:26:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/?p=1115#comment-82682</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t worry Patrick, knowing the prolific Noah and Pat, they&#039;ve surely already got plans for Third Person, Fourth Person, etc! ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t worry Patrick, knowing the prolific Noah and Pat, they&#8217;ve surely already got plans for Third Person, Fourth Person, etc! ;-)</p>
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		<title>By: noah</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2006/03/12/second-person-preview/comment-page-1/#comment-82680</link>
		<dc:creator>noah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Mar 2006 00:39:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/?p=1115#comment-82680</guid>
		<description>Dan and Patrick, thanks for your enthusiastic comments!

I can&#039;t say for sure when the book will be out. It&#039;s been with the MIT Press production people since last year, and I believe is currently in copyediting. Layout will still have to take place, and even when that&#039;s completed there will still be months of printing, binding, and shipping before it appears in stores. So, to make a long story short, I&#039;ve got my fingers crossed for fall.

Patrick, it strikes me that you might enjoy these paragraphs from the book&#039;s introduction, written by Pat Harrigan (the book&#039;s lead editor):

&lt;blockquote&gt;By design, the subject of most of &lt;i&gt;Second Person&lt;/i&gt;’s contributors is, centrally, “you.” This is because &lt;i&gt;you&lt;/i&gt; are the person for whom the story is being told, and because the roles discussed in this book will for the most part be filled by you. &lt;i&gt;Colossal Cave Adventure,&lt;/i&gt; the first computer text adventure, famously addresses the reader, “You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.” &lt;i&gt;The Cave of Time,&lt;/i&gt; the first &lt;i&gt;Choose Your Own Adventure&lt;/i&gt; book, announces that, “The adventures you take are a result of your &lt;i&gt;choice. You&lt;/i&gt; are responsible because &lt;i&gt;you&lt;/i&gt; choose!”  Jeremy Douglass, in his essay here, points out that even the most “first person” of game experiences -- the 3D virtual reality that reaches its apotheosis in room-sized CAVE displays -- serves the same function as the textual second person: simulated immediacy. 

Outside these caves, tabletop role-playing games speak directly to you as well; to pick only one example, Jonathan Tweet’s &lt;i&gt;Over the Edge&lt;/i&gt; tells us: &lt;i&gt;This game is a coded message. You will decode the message in your dreams and execute its instructions in the spaces between moments of will. Neither you nor I will ever know the contents of the message.&lt;/i&gt; &lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan and Patrick, thanks for your enthusiastic comments!</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t say for sure when the book will be out. It&#8217;s been with the MIT Press production people since last year, and I believe is currently in copyediting. Layout will still have to take place, and even when that&#8217;s completed there will still be months of printing, binding, and shipping before it appears in stores. So, to make a long story short, I&#8217;ve got my fingers crossed for fall.</p>
<p>Patrick, it strikes me that you might enjoy these paragraphs from the book&#8217;s introduction, written by Pat Harrigan (the book&#8217;s lead editor):</p>
<blockquote><p>By design, the subject of most of <i>Second Person</i>’s contributors is, centrally, “you.” This is because <i>you</i> are the person for whom the story is being told, and because the roles discussed in this book will for the most part be filled by you. <i>Colossal Cave Adventure,</i> the first computer text adventure, famously addresses the reader, “You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.” <i>The Cave of Time,</i> the first <i>Choose Your Own Adventure</i> book, announces that, “The adventures you take are a result of your <i>choice. You</i> are responsible because <i>you</i> choose!”  Jeremy Douglass, in his essay here, points out that even the most “first person” of game experiences &#8212; the 3D virtual reality that reaches its apotheosis in room-sized CAVE displays &#8212; serves the same function as the textual second person: simulated immediacy. </p>
<p>Outside these caves, tabletop role-playing games speak directly to you as well; to pick only one example, Jonathan Tweet’s <i>Over the Edge</i> tells us: <i>This game is a coded message. You will decode the message in your dreams and execute its instructions in the spaces between moments of will. Neither you nor I will ever know the contents of the message.</i> </p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Patrick Dugan</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2006/03/12/second-person-preview/comment-page-1/#comment-82661</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Dugan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Mar 2006 02:03:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/?p=1115#comment-82661</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t believe I missed out on contributing something to this (well I can, since I don&#039;t have any hard, playable accomplishments to my name... YET), but I like the running metaphore of the different iterations relating to different perspectives. I have a theory about perspectives being a bit different in interactivity, where first person is direct, abstract manipulation ala Sim City or Tetris, second person provides a utilitarian avatar or empty vessel, and third person attributes a platform of a chracter or socially significant role to the player. From what I gather of the table of contents this collection deals much with the Second person and spills over into the third. But the truth is crafting interactive characters and facilitating player agency in the interactive third person hasn&#039;t matured yet, because dramatic gameplay is only in its infancy. In the meantime it seems like this collection is rich and diverse enough to be a strong intellectual platform for exploring the new wave of interactive drama.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t believe I missed out on contributing something to this (well I can, since I don&#8217;t have any hard, playable accomplishments to my name&#8230; YET), but I like the running metaphore of the different iterations relating to different perspectives. I have a theory about perspectives being a bit different in interactivity, where first person is direct, abstract manipulation ala Sim City or Tetris, second person provides a utilitarian avatar or empty vessel, and third person attributes a platform of a chracter or socially significant role to the player. From what I gather of the table of contents this collection deals much with the Second person and spills over into the third. But the truth is crafting interactive characters and facilitating player agency in the interactive third person hasn&#8217;t matured yet, because dramatic gameplay is only in its infancy. In the meantime it seems like this collection is rich and diverse enough to be a strong intellectual platform for exploring the new wave of interactive drama.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Shiovitz</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2006/03/12/second-person-preview/comment-page-1/#comment-82660</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Shiovitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Mar 2006 23:14:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/?p=1115#comment-82660</guid>
		<description>I am totally looking forward to this -- any idea when it&#039;s coming out?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am totally looking forward to this &#8212; any idea when it&#8217;s coming out?</p>
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