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	<title>Comments on: A 12-Step Program to Build Video Games from Logic Gates</title>
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	<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2006/01/08/12-step/</link>
	<description>A group blog about computer narrative, games, poetry, and art.</description>
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		<title>By: Tina Anderson</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2006/01/08/12-step/comment-page-1/#comment-195547</link>
		<dc:creator>Tina Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 16:35:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/?p=1044#comment-195547</guid>
		<description>This is essential reading for anyone that wants to gain a basic understanding of how computers work. While this book can obviously benefit computer science students, I think it can really help new media program students and people in general who want to really understand the inner parts of computers and how they function. I would recommend it to anyone in this field of study.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is essential reading for anyone that wants to gain a basic understanding of how computers work. While this book can obviously benefit computer science students, I think it can really help new media program students and people in general who want to really understand the inner parts of computers and how they function. I would recommend it to anyone in this field of study.</p>
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		<title>By: Grand Text Auto &#187; You Can and Must Understand Giant Brains Now!</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2006/01/08/12-step/comment-page-1/#comment-166404</link>
		<dc:creator>Grand Text Auto &#187; You Can and Must Understand Giant Brains Now!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Dec 2007 14:07:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/?p=1044#comment-166404</guid>
		<description>[...] With its simple but thorough descriptions of how computer systems work, it is an ancestor of The Elements of Computer Systems, but the book is also notable as a predecessor of the populist and manifesto-like Computer Lib / [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] With its simple but thorough descriptions of how computer systems work, it is an ancestor of The Elements of Computer Systems, but the book is also notable as a predecessor of the populist and manifesto-like Computer Lib / [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Charles</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2006/01/08/12-step/comment-page-1/#comment-79754</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:59:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/?p=1044#comment-79754</guid>
		<description>I recently graduated with a CS degree, and in my particular case, I was required to take both a class similar to the one described in the book, as well as at least one class dealing exclusively with logic and computational models. One of the things I remember was that nearly every professor I had mentioned how upset they were that there wasn&#039;t more time for &quot;culture&quot; lessons, i.e. stuff that isn&#039;t directly applicable to programming, but rather is important to being a well educated Computer Scientist in general. I find it hard to accept that a person is a Computer Scientist without at least a passing familiarity with the machine level. 

When I finished the course and I realized that I understood how a computer worked from the logic gates all the way to the assembler, it really blew me away. This sort of course most importantly reveals that computers aren&#039;t &quot;magic&quot;, the knowledge of the processes all the way down makes people better equipped (mentally if not practically) to deal with any number of computer-related situations. I can&#039;t imagine a person with a legitimate curiousity about computers not benefitting from this sort of course, and definitely feel that my own computer science education would have been incomplete without it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I recently graduated with a CS degree, and in my particular case, I was required to take both a class similar to the one described in the book, as well as at least one class dealing exclusively with logic and computational models. One of the things I remember was that nearly every professor I had mentioned how upset they were that there wasn&#8217;t more time for &#8220;culture&#8221; lessons, i.e. stuff that isn&#8217;t directly applicable to programming, but rather is important to being a well educated Computer Scientist in general. I find it hard to accept that a person is a Computer Scientist without at least a passing familiarity with the machine level. </p>
<p>When I finished the course and I realized that I understood how a computer worked from the logic gates all the way to the assembler, it really blew me away. This sort of course most importantly reveals that computers aren&#8217;t &#8220;magic&#8221;, the knowledge of the processes all the way down makes people better equipped (mentally if not practically) to deal with any number of computer-related situations. I can&#8217;t imagine a person with a legitimate curiousity about computers not benefitting from this sort of course, and definitely feel that my own computer science education would have been incomplete without it.</p>
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		<title>By: mark</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2006/01/08/12-step/comment-page-1/#comment-79745</link>
		<dc:creator>mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jan 2006 23:16:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/?p=1044#comment-79745</guid>
		<description>I suppose that&#039;s the real sticking point---what *is* part of the discipline of CS?  Perhaps more importantly, does it even make sense as a unified discipline, or is that a historical relic of the time when the field was relatively small, like the days when physics and chemistry used to be the same field?  

I agree that having a holistic view of computer systems is often useful, but I&#039;m not sure it&#039;s always necessary or the best thing to spend time on.  In particular, I think modern computer systems are at the point where designing a physical computer system is a distinct discipline from designing something that uses a computer system---it might be nice to know how a TLB works, how NAND gates are assembled into higher-order logical circuits, and so on, but is this actually any more necessary for a CS student to know than what a 65-nm process is, how transistors work, and so on?  Even leaving aside future field shifts, I&#039;d say even today I&#039;d consider designing CPUs out of logic gates to be more a part of engineering than CS, though admittedly closer to CS than chip fabrication or transistor physics are.

Which isn&#039;t to say it&#039;s not useful, but I think how useful it is depends on what sort of CS student one is.  If someone is more interested in, say, theory of computation, or machine learning, or another area of that sort, I think having a much more solid grounding in mathematics than is typically common in CS undergraduate programs would be a better use of time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suppose that&#8217;s the real sticking point&#8212;what *is* part of the discipline of CS?  Perhaps more importantly, does it even make sense as a unified discipline, or is that a historical relic of the time when the field was relatively small, like the days when physics and chemistry used to be the same field?  </p>
<p>I agree that having a holistic view of computer systems is often useful, but I&#8217;m not sure it&#8217;s always necessary or the best thing to spend time on.  In particular, I think modern computer systems are at the point where designing a physical computer system is a distinct discipline from designing something that uses a computer system&#8212;it might be nice to know how a TLB works, how NAND gates are assembled into higher-order logical circuits, and so on, but is this actually any more necessary for a CS student to know than what a 65-nm process is, how transistors work, and so on?  Even leaving aside future field shifts, I&#8217;d say even today I&#8217;d consider designing CPUs out of logic gates to be more a part of engineering than CS, though admittedly closer to CS than chip fabrication or transistor physics are.</p>
<p>Which isn&#8217;t to say it&#8217;s not useful, but I think how useful it is depends on what sort of CS student one is.  If someone is more interested in, say, theory of computation, or machine learning, or another area of that sort, I think having a much more solid grounding in mathematics than is typically common in CS undergraduate programs would be a better use of time.</p>
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		<title>By: nick</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2006/01/08/12-step/comment-page-1/#comment-79713</link>
		<dc:creator>nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jan 2006 15:17:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/?p=1044#comment-79713</guid>
		<description>Mark, sure, one can go lower, but that&#039;s physics and engineering, and the question becomes whether one wants to try to expand the discipline of CS or continue into other disciplines.

My point wasn&#039;t that CS programs should cover more systems topics, but that a holistic look at systems is worthwhile for all CS students. Maybe it&#039;s better for students to do a one- or two- semester course like this and have a &lt;i&gt;unit&lt;/i&gt; on building on a CPU instead of spending a whole semester putting logic gates together? The real benefit is not that you sneak in more topics that you otherwise wouldn&#039;t (virualization, for instance) but that a complete view of comptuer systems (everything that is part of the discipline of CS, anyway) can be attained, rather than &lt;i&gt;just&lt;/i&gt; an in-depth understanding of a few pieces.

Having taken that course in logic, which was required in my undergrad program, I agree about the importance of that course.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark, sure, one can go lower, but that&#8217;s physics and engineering, and the question becomes whether one wants to try to expand the discipline of CS or continue into other disciplines.</p>
<p>My point wasn&#8217;t that CS programs should cover more systems topics, but that a holistic look at systems is worthwhile for all CS students. Maybe it&#8217;s better for students to do a one- or two- semester course like this and have a <i>unit</i> on building on a CPU instead of spending a whole semester putting logic gates together? The real benefit is not that you sneak in more topics that you otherwise wouldn&#8217;t (virualization, for instance) but that a complete view of comptuer systems (everything that is part of the discipline of CS, anyway) can be attained, rather than <i>just</i> an in-depth understanding of a few pieces.</p>
<p>Having taken that course in logic, which was required in my undergrad program, I agree about the importance of that course.</p>
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		<title>By: mark</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2006/01/08/12-step/comment-page-1/#comment-79644</link>
		<dc:creator>mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jan 2006 19:44:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/?p=1044#comment-79644</guid>
		<description>I haven&#039;t read this book, so can&#039;t comment on it in particular, but I&#039;ll comment on your comments about undergraduate curricula.  I&#039;d say it&#039;s really a subjective decision what should be covered---ideally, everyone needs to know a little bit about everything, but only so much fits in 4 years.  In particular, does a CS major in 2006 need to know how logic gates are put together to make a CPU, or is it sufficient to deal with things at a higher level of abstraction (perhaps only going down to the assembly level, or maybe not even below C)?  How about further down in the abstraction hierarchy; should they understand how circuits are laid out on silicon; heat dissipation problems; maybe even the physics of how transistors work?

It depends on what you want to do, really.  It&#039;s all useful on some level, but not necessarily more useful than other things---for example, students interested in AI may benefit more from a class on philosophy of mind or cognitive science (or both) than from a class on circuit design.  I&#039;d also argue that a basic class on formal logic should be a part of every CS curriculum, while currently that doesn&#039;t seem to be the case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t read this book, so can&#8217;t comment on it in particular, but I&#8217;ll comment on your comments about undergraduate curricula.  I&#8217;d say it&#8217;s really a subjective decision what should be covered&#8212;ideally, everyone needs to know a little bit about everything, but only so much fits in 4 years.  In particular, does a CS major in 2006 need to know how logic gates are put together to make a CPU, or is it sufficient to deal with things at a higher level of abstraction (perhaps only going down to the assembly level, or maybe not even below C)?  How about further down in the abstraction hierarchy; should they understand how circuits are laid out on silicon; heat dissipation problems; maybe even the physics of how transistors work?</p>
<p>It depends on what you want to do, really.  It&#8217;s all useful on some level, but not necessarily more useful than other things&#8212;for example, students interested in AI may benefit more from a class on philosophy of mind or cognitive science (or both) than from a class on circuit design.  I&#8217;d also argue that a basic class on formal logic should be a part of every CS curriculum, while currently that doesn&#8217;t seem to be the case.</p>
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		<title>By: michael</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2006/01/08/12-step/comment-page-1/#comment-79600</link>
		<dc:creator>michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jan 2006 23:11:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandtextauto.org/?p=1044#comment-79600</guid>
		<description>Sounds like a great book. This semester I&#039;m designing and teaching a course at Georgia Tech, CS 2260: Media Device Architectures, that is supposed to do exactly this; demystify the operation of computers, provide an introduction to hardware and software systems, but all from an interactive media-centric perspective. To do this we&#039;ll be doing Gameboy Advance programming. Unfortunately there are constraints on the course that would make &lt;i&gt;Elements of Computer Systems&lt;/i&gt; not the perfect approach (not without redesigning other courses that would appear before and after 2260). As I start teaching the course next week, I&#039;ll write a post about the design of the course and the curricular constraints I&#039;m trying to satisfy. However, it may be that some chapters of the book will be useful for 2260.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sounds like a great book. This semester I&#8217;m designing and teaching a course at Georgia Tech, CS 2260: Media Device Architectures, that is supposed to do exactly this; demystify the operation of computers, provide an introduction to hardware and software systems, but all from an interactive media-centric perspective. To do this we&#8217;ll be doing Gameboy Advance programming. Unfortunately there are constraints on the course that would make <i>Elements of Computer Systems</i> not the perfect approach (not without redesigning other courses that would appear before and after 2260). As I start teaching the course next week, I&#8217;ll write a post about the design of the course and the curricular constraints I&#8217;m trying to satisfy. However, it may be that some chapters of the book will be useful for 2260.</p>
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