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	<title>Comments on: TV is Good For You, and Interactive Art is Irritating</title>
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	<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2005/04/27/tv-is-good-for-you-and-interactive-art-is-irritating/</link>
	<description>A group blog about computer narrative, games, poetry, and art.</description>
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		<title>By: Grand Text Auto &#187; Keeping Digital Comics Comics</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2005/04/27/tv-is-good-for-you-and-interactive-art-is-irritating/comment-page-1/#comment-68735</link>
		<dc:creator>Grand Text Auto &#187; Keeping Digital Comics Comics</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Aug 2005 17:45:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=772#comment-68735</guid>
		<description>[...]  	 			The somewhat surly NYTimes new media critic Sarah Boxer (if you recall, she wrote a pretty harsh review of the last Boston Cyberarts [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]<br />
 			The somewhat surly NYTimes new media critic Sarah Boxer (if you recall, she wrote a pretty harsh review of the last Boston Cyberarts [...]</p>
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		<title>By: noah</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2005/04/27/tv-is-good-for-you-and-interactive-art-is-irritating/comment-page-1/#comment-50949</link>
		<dc:creator>noah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 May 2005 12:20:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=772#comment-50949</guid>
		<description>The &lt;a href=&quot;http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/arts/4525945.stm&quot;&gt;BBC&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,67314,00.html&quot;&gt;Wired News&lt;/a&gt; coverage feels a bit different... like they were reviewing the festival.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/arts/4525945.stm">BBC</a> and <a href="http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,67314,00.html">Wired News</a> coverage feels a bit different&#8230; like they were reviewing the festival.</p>
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		<title>By: mark</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2005/04/27/tv-is-good-for-you-and-interactive-art-is-irritating/comment-page-1/#comment-50948</link>
		<dc:creator>mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 May 2005 07:00:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=772#comment-50948</guid>
		<description>A caveat to the previous comment&#8212;I &lt;i&gt;have&lt;/i&gt; been to music performances that I&#039;d consider interactive experiences, and which I thought were quite excellent.  Small shows in experimental genres with relatively few people in attendance&#8212;and especially when there&#039;s no security, barriers, or stage separating performers from audience&#8212;are not quite &quot;passive art&quot; in the sense of listening to a CD or quietly observing a symphony performance from the balcony, and can have quite interesting dynamics.  But that didn&#039;t seem to be the sense of &quot;interactive art&quot; meant here; it&#039;s certainly not something you can line up in the gallery of a curated exhibition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A caveat to the previous comment&mdash;I <i>have</i> been to music performances that I&#8217;d consider interactive experiences, and which I thought were quite excellent.  Small shows in experimental genres with relatively few people in attendance&mdash;and especially when there&#8217;s no security, barriers, or stage separating performers from audience&mdash;are not quite &#8220;passive art&#8221; in the sense of listening to a CD or quietly observing a symphony performance from the balcony, and can have quite interesting dynamics.  But that didn&#8217;t seem to be the sense of &#8220;interactive art&#8221; meant here; it&#8217;s certainly not something you can line up in the gallery of a curated exhibition.</p>
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		<title>By: mark</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2005/04/27/tv-is-good-for-you-and-interactive-art-is-irritating/comment-page-1/#comment-50947</link>
		<dc:creator>mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 May 2005 06:51:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=772#comment-50947</guid>
		<description>In a certain sense I agree with the article.  I like interactive art better than passive art in principle, but &lt;i&gt;good&lt;/i&gt; passive art can certainly be better than &lt;i&gt;bad&lt;/i&gt; interactive art.  I&#039;d have to say the vast majority of interactive art I&#039;ve seen didn&#039;t really interest me in any way at all, on either an intellectual or artistic level.  Of course, that&#039;s also true of the vast majority of passive art, but it helps that there is a much larger body of the latter to choose from.

I may not have been looking in the right places, but I&#039;ve yet to find an interactive experience that I really thought was amazing, to the point where I&#039;d rank it alongside the world&#039;s great works of music, visual arts, literature, and film.  At best I&#039;ve seen things that are interesting, but not a &lt;i&gt;masterpiece&lt;/i&gt;.  (That doesn&#039;t mean there&#039;s anything intrinsically wrong with the medium, of course.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In a certain sense I agree with the article.  I like interactive art better than passive art in principle, but <i>good</i> passive art can certainly be better than <i>bad</i> interactive art.  I&#8217;d have to say the vast majority of interactive art I&#8217;ve seen didn&#8217;t really interest me in any way at all, on either an intellectual or artistic level.  Of course, that&#8217;s also true of the vast majority of passive art, but it helps that there is a much larger body of the latter to choose from.</p>
<p>I may not have been looking in the right places, but I&#8217;ve yet to find an interactive experience that I really thought was amazing, to the point where I&#8217;d rank it alongside the world&#8217;s great works of music, visual arts, literature, and film.  At best I&#8217;ve seen things that are interesting, but not a <i>masterpiece</i>.  (That doesn&#8217;t mean there&#8217;s anything intrinsically wrong with the medium, of course.)</p>
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		<title>By: andrew</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2005/04/27/tv-is-good-for-you-and-interactive-art-is-irritating/comment-page-1/#comment-50942</link>
		<dc:creator>andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 May 2005 16:49:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=772#comment-50942</guid>
		<description>Steve Dietz &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.yproductions.com/WebWalkAbout/archives/000701.html&quot;&gt;rebuts&lt;/a&gt; the article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve Dietz <a href="http://www.yproductions.com/WebWalkAbout/archives/000701.html">rebuts</a> the article.</p>
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		<title>By: noah</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2005/04/27/tv-is-good-for-you-and-interactive-art-is-irritating/comment-page-1/#comment-48662</link>
		<dc:creator>noah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Apr 2005 16:42:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=772#comment-48662</guid>
		<description>Nick, you outline what might be an interesting essay -- but, instead of being that essay, this is a poor review of the Cyberarts festival. 

On the other hand, that interesting essay might be hard to publish in the Times. 

I certainly would have liked it better as the essay. Imagine if it had started by saying, &quot;There are some things that annoy me about interactive art -- I&#039;ve got a little list of them -- and I found examples of all of them at the Cyberarts festival.&quot; Sounds like a kind of negative piece, but a better one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nick, you outline what might be an interesting essay &#8212; but, instead of being that essay, this is a poor review of the Cyberarts festival. </p>
<p>On the other hand, that interesting essay might be hard to publish in the Times. </p>
<p>I certainly would have liked it better as the essay. Imagine if it had started by saying, &#8220;There are some things that annoy me about interactive art &#8212; I&#8217;ve got a little list of them &#8212; and I found examples of all of them at the Cyberarts festival.&#8221; Sounds like a kind of negative piece, but a better one.</p>
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		<title>By: nick</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2005/04/27/tv-is-good-for-you-and-interactive-art-is-irritating/comment-page-1/#comment-48661</link>
		<dc:creator>nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Apr 2005 14:29:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=772#comment-48661</guid>
		<description>Seems to me like the article offers some fairly specific interface/experience critiques, &quot;like it or not,&quot; and even tries to enumerate all the ways in which interactive art can be annoying: &quot;prurience, ritual, ungraciousness and moral superiority.&quot;

We could complain that she didn&#039;t look at the good stuff, or complain that there is some mockable &quot;old art is better&quot; subtext in the article, or we could ask &quot;is she right? are these aspects of digital artworks annoying?&quot;

Not having seen these pieces, I can&#039;t answer the question with reference to them, but I&#039;ve certainly had annoyances with particular pieces of digital art (and some pieces of e-lit), so I think it&#039;s interesting to see someone trying to define general categories of annoyance, with reference to particular works, in the short and unfootnoted form of a &lt;i&gt;New York Times&lt;/i&gt; article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seems to me like the article offers some fairly specific interface/experience critiques, &#8220;like it or not,&#8221; and even tries to enumerate all the ways in which interactive art can be annoying: &#8220;prurience, ritual, ungraciousness and moral superiority.&#8221;</p>
<p>We could complain that she didn&#8217;t look at the good stuff, or complain that there is some mockable &#8220;old art is better&#8221; subtext in the article, or we could ask &#8220;is she right? are these aspects of digital artworks annoying?&#8221;</p>
<p>Not having seen these pieces, I can&#8217;t answer the question with reference to them, but I&#8217;ve certainly had annoyances with particular pieces of digital art (and some pieces of e-lit), so I think it&#8217;s interesting to see someone trying to define general categories of annoyance, with reference to particular works, in the short and unfootnoted form of a <i>New York Times</i> article.</p>
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		<title>By: noah</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2005/04/27/tv-is-good-for-you-and-interactive-art-is-irritating/comment-page-1/#comment-48660</link>
		<dc:creator>noah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Apr 2005 14:09:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=772#comment-48660</guid>
		<description>Also, if the NYTimes critic was so starved for non-interactive work, why not mention &lt;a href=&quot;http://digitalmedia.risd.edu/billseaman/&quot;&gt;Bill Seaman&lt;/a&gt; and Otto Rössler&#039;s &lt;i&gt;The Thoughtbody Environment: Toward a Model for an Electrochemical Computer&lt;/i&gt;? This was on display at the &lt;a href=&quot;http://cyberarts.qc1.net/bca/events/event_details_multiple.php?eventids=3,64,60,61&amp;title=BCF%20at%20Kendall%20SQ&quot;&gt;Kendall Square opening&lt;/a&gt; mentioned in the review, and was positioned as the centerpiece. I guess it didn&#039;t fit with the &quot;old art is better&quot; thrust?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, if the NYTimes critic was so starved for non-interactive work, why not mention <a href="http://digitalmedia.risd.edu/billseaman/">Bill Seaman</a> and Otto Rössler&#8217;s <i>The Thoughtbody Environment: Toward a Model for an Electrochemical Computer</i>? This was on display at the <a href="http://cyberarts.qc1.net/bca/events/event_details_multiple.php?eventids=3,64,60,61&#038;title=BCF%20at%20Kendall%20SQ">Kendall Square opening</a> mentioned in the review, and was positioned as the centerpiece. I guess it didn&#8217;t fit with the &#8220;old art is better&#8221; thrust?</p>
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		<title>By: noah</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2005/04/27/tv-is-good-for-you-and-interactive-art-is-irritating/comment-page-1/#comment-48659</link>
		<dc:creator>noah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Apr 2005 12:54:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=772#comment-48659</guid>
		<description>I think it&#039;s interesting that the reporter didn&#039;t say, &quot;These are just technology demos. Where&#039;s the art?&quot; I seem to remember that being the most common criticism of interactive art. In fact, it&#039;s just the opposite in this article. The Scott Snibbe work probably has the least &quot;content&quot; of any of the pieces discussed, and it&#039;s also viewed most favorably. Is this progress?

I think there&#039;s quite a bit of successful stuff in the Cyberarts festival this year. I suppose the reviewer didn&#039;t have time or patience for a piece like &lt;a href=&quot;http://turbulence.org/works/itinerant/&quot;&gt;Teri Rueb&#039;s &quot;Itinerant&quot;&lt;/a&gt; which (gasp) takes as long to experience as a movie. Who would want to give so much time to that annoying interactive art stuff? Let&#039;s pick a few pieces, give them 30 seconds each, and then make fun of them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s interesting that the reporter didn&#8217;t say, &#8220;These are just technology demos. Where&#8217;s the art?&#8221; I seem to remember that being the most common criticism of interactive art. In fact, it&#8217;s just the opposite in this article. The Scott Snibbe work probably has the least &#8220;content&#8221; of any of the pieces discussed, and it&#8217;s also viewed most favorably. Is this progress?</p>
<p>I think there&#8217;s quite a bit of successful stuff in the Cyberarts festival this year. I suppose the reviewer didn&#8217;t have time or patience for a piece like <a href="http://turbulence.org/works/itinerant/">Teri Rueb&#8217;s &#8220;Itinerant&#8221;</a> which (gasp) takes as long to experience as a movie. Who would want to give so much time to that annoying interactive art stuff? Let&#8217;s pick a few pieces, give them 30 seconds each, and then make fun of them.</p>
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		<title>By: scott</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2005/04/27/tv-is-good-for-you-and-interactive-art-is-irritating/comment-page-1/#comment-48658</link>
		<dc:creator>scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Apr 2005 12:48:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=772#comment-48658</guid>
		<description>The Times piece is interesting, and identifies several common problems with interactive art, but from its tone, I&#039;m given to assume that its author entered the experience with a less-than-open mind. It wouldn&#039;t be at all unlike the Times to send someone predisposed towards disliking interactive art to an interactive art exhibition, rather than someone more knowledgable who could review the work in a richer context (why not Matthew Mirapaul?). Maybe Nick and Noah (or other readers of this blog) can give a more unbiased (or biased in a different way) report for the sake of comparison.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Times piece is interesting, and identifies several common problems with interactive art, but from its tone, I&#8217;m given to assume that its author entered the experience with a less-than-open mind. It wouldn&#8217;t be at all unlike the Times to send someone predisposed towards disliking interactive art to an interactive art exhibition, rather than someone more knowledgable who could review the work in a richer context (why not Matthew Mirapaul?). Maybe Nick and Noah (or other readers of this blog) can give a more unbiased (or biased in a different way) report for the sake of comparison.</p>
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		<title>By: scott</title>
		<link>http://grandtextauto.org/2005/04/27/tv-is-good-for-you-and-interactive-art-is-irritating/comment-page-1/#comment-48657</link>
		<dc:creator>scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Apr 2005 12:42:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=772#comment-48657</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://jilltxt.net/?p=1356&quot;&gt;Jill&lt;/a&gt; recently noted another excerpt that Steven Johnson also wrote about the dangers of linear reading for readers raised on video-games in his &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.stevenberlinjohnson.com/movabletype/archives/000248.html&quot;&gt;blog&lt;/a&gt; (albeit with tongue firmly in cheek).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://jilltxt.net/?p=1356">Jill</a> recently noted another excerpt that Steven Johnson also wrote about the dangers of linear reading for readers raised on video-games in his <a href="http://www.stevenberlinjohnson.com/movabletype/archives/000248.html">blog</a> (albeit with tongue firmly in cheek).</p>
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